VP 304 Rebuild Advice

[james_ryan02]

I currently have stripped a VP 304 block which I am wanting to rebuild and play with in my HG.

I am a little new to engine modification and am chasing some ideas for the rebuild. I'm trying to build this engine at a cheapish rate, focusing on the bottom end of motor to start with.

The engine went through the floods, hence the rebuild. It needs a little hone but other than than its fine. Im thinking of getting a 355 stroker kit? and rebuilding it from there. I'm wanting to spend less than 3g on it. Im not too sure and dont have a great deal of experience with these engines.

If anyone could offer their suggestions or ideas it would be more than appreciated! cheers

Jimmy

[VR38]

Talk to a few different engine reconditioners in your area to get an idea what your budget will get you.
Get back here with the results to see if you are getting rooted by them.

[james_ryan02]

anyone else got a worthy reply? ive been given advice but im asking for real advice from people that live and breed these motor forums?

[hi_ryder]

you can spend 3 grand just on having the block bored out and the bottom end assembled so its up to you how far you wanna go, and what you have to spend. with bottom end stuff unless your an engine builder your better off leaving that stuff to the pros. id do what the other dude said which is get some prices from the locals and go from there.

[304runner]

anyone else got a worthy reply? ive been given advice but im asking for real advice from people that live and breed these motor forums?

You're attitude stinks!

You have already made a post chasing a PDF file on an engine rebuild in this forum and when people couldn't help out, you called them "parrots" and "cu*ts"....

Now you sledge a form member because he gave you (IMO) good advice about speaking to a company in regards to your budget and you deem it as "a non worthy reply".

I could help you but id feel like id be associating myself with a ungrateful sook who throws a tangent every time he doesn't get his own way when given a reply that isn't what he wants to hear.

The only "worthy advice" I can give you is to GAGF and buy a pushbike.


Kind Regards

[james_ryan02]

mate im sick of getting obvious responses. I ask for ideas and help that i can further look into and weigh up different options. I will be rebuilding the engine myself. This isnt the first engine i have rebuilt!!! Annoyingly I get smart ass remarks 'previous' and obvious answers. my apologies VR38, its defiantly a worthy reply, I just find it surprising and cracked it about the minimal help im receiving which is 'WHERE' I developed this attitude. Yes im cracking it about not getting the answers I want. Why even post on these forums when i cant get what i would like or the knowledge i need to gain?

[*uwishn*]

hey mate i paid $1900 that got me:
full rebuild kit with 30tho flat top pistons,
bore and hone 30tho
block milled
10tho crank grind
heads shaved
valve service
rods fitted to pistons

and the engine was put back together by my old man,so probably gives you a rough idea....make sure you don't get one of them cheap "pro-comp" kits (plenty of stories on here)
so in my opinion no you couldn't do it for $3000 once its stroked then you need better fuel,air,ecu,cam.
just dump an ls1 in it lol.

[Circlotron]

I've never built or had one, but I get the gut feeling that for a limited budget, once you blow a good percentage of your money on stroker-related stuff there is not nearly as much left to do a good job on all the other bits and pieces.

[james_ryan02]

Thanks for the replies!

I've had a quick look around and came across this package: 'Holden 355 SCAT Dish Top Stoker Kit'

HOLDEN 355 SCAT CAST DISH TOP STROKER KIT - Affordable Racing Parts

This is a pretty decent price, but will it perform and last?
If so, the only main cost is getting the block bored, honed, correct?

[304runner]

The compression looks a bit low, almost boost specs. but if your not going to ever run boost Id be leaning towards the flat top pistons if you can get your hands on a set.


Also, your block isn't factory cleared for a stroker crank, so it will need to be notched out so your conrod cap bolts don't hit the center of the block but its not a big job, anyone can do it even a first timer or you could just buy a VS 304 block as they are cleared for the stroker kit.

Also depending on how hard you want to rev this engine will determine weather or not you should get the rotating assembly balanced, personally I would but I know plenty of people who haven't.

I cant see why you would need to bore the block,unless its pitted from rust but, if its just got a bit of surface rust then give it a quick hone yourself and try to keep the virgin bore specs. You can buy honing tools pretty much anywhere and just look up some vids on YouTube to see how its done.

Also, I cant see a gasket kit that comes with the link you supplied, so there's another $350+...

Have you had a look on ebay for stroker kits? There are some nice kits on there but also some dodgy ones, look at the feed back to get an idea if the kit is good or not, if they are shit, people will let you know.

[james_ryan02]

The compression looks a bit low, almost boost specs. but if your not going to ever run boost Id be leaning towards the flat top pistons if you can get your hands on a set.


Also, your block isn't factory cleared for a stroker crank, so it will need to be notched out so your conrod cap bolts don't hit the center of the block but its not a big job, anyone can do it even a first timer or you could just buy a VS 304 block as they are cleared for the stroker kit.

Also depending on how hard you want to rev this engine will determine weather or not you should get the rotating assembly balanced, personally I would but I know plenty of people who haven't.

I cant see why you would need to bore the block,unless its pitted from rust but, if its just got a bit of surface rust then give it a quick hone yourself and try to keep the virgin bore specs. You can buy honing tools pretty much anywhere and just look up some vids on YouTube to see how its done.

Also, I cant see a gasket kit that comes with the link you supplied, so there's another $350+...

Have you had a look on ebay for stroker kits? There are some nice kits on there but also some dodgy ones, look at the feed back to get an idea if the kit is good or not, if they are shit, people will let you know.

Awesome info runner, I've been watching a few videos on machining and rebuilding. The notching will be pretty easy. As for balancing, I will defiantly get it balanced.

The car did have flood water stored in it for some time although i did have it soaked in litres of WD40 to separate the water from metal, rust is visible in some places. Im quite certain that it is just surface rust, so I'll just hone it myself. That website offers Flat top as well but with the same compression so ill look around for some more. What ratio should i be looking at?

The engine ran super smooth and perfect prior to the floods, do i not need to worry about getting it machined properly, because i watched this video and it seems theres a lot more involved than just cleaning it out and honing? - How-To Machine a Chevy 350 Small Block Engine (Machine Shop) - YouTube

thanks again

[304runner]

The compression ratio they offer is good right across the board but if your going to build a stroker engine, one can oly assume you want decent power and a 12:1 compression ratio is what id be chasing.

It has its ups and downs, 12:1. is the limit for pump fuel, If you are going to bump to race gas go to at least 13.5:1. but there goes your budget coz you will need some serious head work

In respect to HP gains, the rule of thumb is 2% per point.

If I were you, id ditch the stroker idea and stick with a reputable engine parts kit that offers a virgin bore kit. If you really wanted extra power, go for forged internals and save up some coin after its fitted and throw a turbo on at a later date.

If you already have decent internals and wanted a turbo thrown on the engine then pretty much the only thing you will need as far as engine mods (if any) would be to buy a set of copper head gaskets, these are fairly thick and will raise the heads up from the deck and give you more space between the top of the pistons and the valves (lower compression) for the forced air and fuel mixture to combust.

[james_ryan02]

ok, well ive been reading around and apparently a 10.5 compression is pretty good,
The engine will be for a HG, the car will be a once a week driver, mainly highway and muck around in every now and then.
Gas is not what I want and I defiantly don't want to put a turbo on it.
I simply want to build the bottom end so its reliable and go from there at a later date.

How about this Kit with 30 tho bore? - 355 HOLDEN STROKER KIT CAST CRANK SCAT | eBay

The existing internals I have all need replacing hence rebuilding with a stroker kit.

[james_ryan02]

Sorry, it will proabably be a 10 thou bore, possible 20

Just spoke to someone who will machine the block for me and install cam bearings for cheap as shit.

Im now struggling with the stroker kit, Im finding ones but than realising they are too good to be true, I want a Scat 355 Stroker kit, and apparently the goods ones are 2400 or so. I was told if i find ones that are 1800 or less than it will be crap?

Let me know thoughts or hit me a link?

Also, difference between steel and cast? should i be steering clear of cast, cause thats the only reason there are rebuild kits that are less than 1700 otherwise 2400 for a real scat full stroker kit (steel).?????

[VR38]

If you want my advice, forget about stroking it and just get the bottom end recoed with flat tops and a cam within your budget but what would I know, I only play with these things.

[james_ryan02]

If you want my advice, forget about stroking it and just get the bottom end recoed with flat tops and a cam within your budget but what would I know, I only play with these things.

Cmon mate, my first comment was wrong and i apologised.

Do you think i should not use a cast crank? What are your thoughts on these in regards to how im going to use the engine??
Im struggling to find what is a good kit as there are so many different combinations and variations out there which i cant analyse. Please get back to me about this! and...

Now that you and someone else have said that I am thinking it now. Problem is I have no idea about specs and whats good when it comes to pistons conrods etc.

My original crank is in pretty mint condition, Is there anything you could suggest I research and check out?

I have read several threads about different cast kits for under 2g, everyone just contradicts each other and cant make sense of it.

Thanks again!

[Munz]

go see PLR Engine Reconditioning in brendale they do heaps of strokers they might know whats good and the like

[james_ryan02]

If you want my advice, forget about stroking it and just get the bottom end recoed with flat tops and a cam within your budget but what would I know, I only play with these things.

Cmon mate, my first comment was wrong and i apologised.

Do you think i should not use a cast crank? What are your thoughts on these in regards to how im going to use the engine??
Im struggling to find what is a good kit as there are so many different combinations and variations out there which i cant analyse. Please get back to me about this! and...

Now that you and someone else have said that I am thinking it now. Problem is I have no idea about specs and whats good when it comes to pistons conrods etc.

My original crank is in pretty mint condition, Is there anything you could suggest I research and check out?

I have read several threads about different cast kits for under 2g, everyone just contradicts each other and cant make sense of it.

Thanks again!

[304runner]

Cmon mate, my first comment was wrong and i apologised.

I also read it that way, but I realized it wasn't meant that way the second time I read it...

Continue...

[VR38]

Ok apology accepted.

1. strip your bottom end.
2. take to engine builder, ask him to clean everything and then inspect it.
3. if all is good, order new bearings and flat top pistons. Get him to fit the pistons to your rods, machine block to zero deck height to suit the pistons and fit the cam bearings.
4. take it all home and assemble with cam of your choice and 40th thick (compressed) head gasket.
5. if you need an expanded explanation then but a holden engine building manual.

[The pig]

Jimmy you get what u pay for unfortunately going "cheapish" isnt a good option, if u want to get a rebuild try to spend as much money on good quality components as possible, a stroker kit might involve a bit of machining for clearances etc so unfortunately your $3000 budget is over spent already stroker kits are anywhere from $2000 to $5000+ depending on parts used and work neccisary to do it. A stroked motor does sound nice and will also handle crapy fuel without detonation, all the best, someone on this forum may have a stroker kit for sale cheapish and if u can do as much work on your own youll save dollars.

[james_ryan02]

ok i see where you's are getting at, sorry if I'm repeating, I'm just trying to push and understand properly. It is obvious the more u spend the better quality the parts will be and the performance and durability will be far better.

This is the kit I am looking at

Scat Cast Crank 3.48
I-Beam Rods 5.7
Hypatec Flat Top Pistons 30 Thou
Moly Rings Narrow
Rear Main Seal
Bearings-Mains-Conrod-Cam
Full Gasket Set

The only thing I can see which is cheap in this kit is the crank, Only because its not steel but I have been told that the cast crank is supposed to be good for 500hp @ 6500 so I should be good to go?? - Just wanting a fat streeter which has a tone of power, also which will last?

Thoughts on this? thanks again!

[The pig]

Mate of mine ran a scat crank in his altered drag car, never had a problem, but yes unfortunately more u spend better quality the components happier youll be, you gotta make sure your rotating assembly is strong coz, i saw a blown 454 let one of its pistons go on an engine dyno and appaet from scareing the crap out of us it destroyed the block, your parts list sounds ok but honestly mate go to a race engine builder find out before you start spending.

[The pig]

You want a fat streeter with tons of power that will last $3000 will possibly buy you the crank for what you want you could be looking at a $15000 + build up, i used to paint and machine harley davidson and hsv hubs and wheels all cast and id stay away from cast if your putting alot of load on it coz we used to get alot of pourosity which is heaps of tiny pin prick holes inthe machined casting and theyd get rejected and re melted. Forged everything mate, much stronger and less prone to defects

[304runner]

The ebay kits are fine. Most people that will say "dont buy them" have never even looked at one...

Your after a budget build and those kits suit your price, it wont go bang if you treat it right...