Leaks at timing cover gasket? other repairs advice needed

[somefool]

Hey guys, I set aside this weekend to do some work on the car (engine mounts, inlet manifold gaskets and lifters)
When i got underneath it I was greeted by a fair bit of sludge and coolant. Wet sump, (a combination of ther cracked p/steer hose and engine oil from somewhere

Nonetheless i've delayed the engine mounts and have started looking for the source of all the sludge and I am thinking that the timimng cover gasket is gone, water pump gasket is fine.

Also there appears to be coolant weeping from the idler puller support where it mates to the engine. Are there coolant passages under there too?

All advice/ opinions/ thoughts are very welcome.

I think the photos might be a bit data heavy











the rest of the photos are in this album
Pictures by somefool21 - Photobucket

thanks

[hi_ryder]

looks like leaks from everywhere. looks like youve already got the PS unit off so i guess cleaning it up and doing some driving is out of the question. normally i give it a good degrease and pressure wash, then do some k's and inspect for the sources of leaks. looks like it could be your water pump gasket. the oil could be rocker cover gaskets pooling down to bottom of the engine, or timing gasket like you said. almost looks like it could be from the PS unit as well. hard to tell. almost looks like a little wetness around the oil pressure sensor as well but again could just be dirty from another leak. unless you looking at fresh leaks its kind of a guessing game...

[Jxw]

bypass hose from the manifold to the timing cover looks like it's previously been weeping to.
heater pipe into the timing cover looks suspect (signs of rust which could be a leaking oring causing the coolant on the block below and behind it), hose going to this also looks flared at the end (looks old and soft).
As above it could also be the valley gasket, as below inlet manifold gasket seems nice and green, kit usually has both these gaskets in it.

Before pulling the water pump and timing cover off i'd be replacing hoses, hose clamps, bypass bung and orings and then see if/where it continues to leak afterwards, do the cheap simple things first to help figure out exactly where the leaks are.

[Sabbath']

Inlet manifold gasket also looks like it may be suspect.

[Muke]

Yeah it's a bugger tracing leaks, a tiny amounts seems to always manage to cover the whole engine. As hi_ryder said, it's a pity you can't give the whole thing a clean a go for a drive, that was always my starting point.
Looking at the photo of the top of the water pump, it looks like there's a bit of a leak where that hose attaches to the pump. Not sure if the coolant can migrate from there to were you can see it.
The photo where the heater pipe attaches the hose to the pipe also seems as though the front of that bracket has fluid on it that has been sprayed onto it (only one side of the bolt and front have fluid, and not one side of the bracket).
Spraying would mean pressure, not dripping. And it appears to be coming from the direction of the timing cover.
I'd also check around the rocker covers and hose fittings to see how they look.

Sorry, I'm just guessing. All I can suggest is those 3 things (hose on water pump, ps, timing cover) then giving the engine bay a degrease. Ignore all the crap on the bottom of the engine for now as it could have come from anywhere. Hopefully that's all that's wrong. If not you can try putting paper under the car when you park it (or a flattened box). Helps you identify slightly where the leak is, but you can see easier what colour the fluid is & what it is.

Good Luck.

[Alloytec]

More then likely the plastic fitting that goes into the front of the manifold.. They are prone to cracking due to age and from getting hot and cold and hot and cold 11ty billion times.

[hi_ryder]

More then likely the plastic fitting that goes into the front of the manifold.. They are prone to cracking due to age and from getting hot and cold and hot and cold 11ty billion times.

ive been caught out a few times with that one.... i actually keep a new spare in my tool box at all times....

edit: [Buick]"How To" bypass hose and inlet manifold bung

[Jxw]

More then likely the plastic fitting that goes into the front of the manifold.. They are prone to cracking due to age and from getting hot and cold and hot and cold 11ty billion times.

ive been caught out a few times with that one.... i actually keep a new spare in my tool box at all times....

edit: [Buick]"How To" bypass hose and inlet manifold bung

nothing as annoying as that last nip on the hose clamp and the plastic collapses/shatters inside the hose or the thing splits in 2 and parts from the manifold......

[Alloytec]

ya can get metal replacement ones now

[somefool]

beauty thanks for the replies guys,

Yes i can confirm that the valley, inlet manifold and rocker cover gaskets are long gone- i have got the replacements, just waiting for them to be installed.

I'll have a close look at the bypass plastic hose fitting, if it's obviously leaking then ill replace that and give the whole area a good clean, put the lot back together and do some kilometres.

If the timing cover is leaking bad enough to actually spray then I may as well rip the balance shaft out too.


So my plan of attack so far should be ??
-degrease engine
-bypass hose and fitting, heater hose and o-ring from timing cover (does this just pop out of the timing cover??)
-valley gaskets, rocker cover gaskets and lifters. (ive got new lifters to go in so i am going to do them when i do the valley gaskets)
-then do some driving

[somefool]

oh and it can stay in bits for as long as i need (have a ford laser daily), but i do want it ready to go by the 28th so i can make the jc cruise

[VPRob]

if you are replacing the plastic fitting for the bypass hose on front of the inlet manifold be aware that there is an identical fitting on the back of the inlet manifold for the heater hose. A bit more difficult to access but equally suspect and replaceable with the same metal part.
I'll put in a vote for running bars leaks as a fix for some coolant leaks. It works for me
cheers

[hi_ryder]

nothing as annoying as that last nip on the hose clamp and the plastic collapses/shatters inside the hose or the thing splits in 2 and parts from the manifold......

for me it was accidentally bumping it while doing something unrelated to the cooling system. they get so brittle you gotta be careful around them... think ill hit super cheap and see if theres any in stock, next time ill just change to the metal ones....

my early vn has metal taps threaded and screwed right into the manifold, is that factory? or did someone do an after market fix... just wondering...

[Alloytec]

Could be a S1 thing but i cant confirm that.

And if its that metal pipe you're talking about that just pulls out of the timing cover but just be gentle lol

[somefool]

that pipe does not want to play gentle, ill just spray it up with wd-40 every now and then,

ive got the inlet manifold off, the gaskets were stuffed. hah and ive found that the trans cooler side of the radiator is cracked. yipee, another oil source located.

anyway, as to cleaning the inlet gasket faces, a razor blade will do yeah? I have found that there are grooves in the heads that im guessing the rubber on the gaskets fit into.. :S hard to clean as the stuff in there is prett much as hard as the cast iron itself..

[hi_ryder]

ive gone ahead and bypassed the transmission part of the radiator and just installed a transcooler, even after i bought a new radiator.... prevention is better than a cure...

[Alloytec]

Dont sand the manifold at all, razor blade should be fine though. With your manifold gasket set you would of got two little U style gaskets that sit at the front and the back of the valley. In each corner when your ready to put the manifold back on apply a bit of gasket goo (I use the blue stuff @ work, we call it ultra blue) between the U section piece and each corner of the inlet gaskets. This will guarantee that oil will not leak from the front or rear of the valley.

As for the metal pipe you can use a screw drive against the part it bolts onto to pry it out but try to turn the pipe left to right first as the o ring is more then likely gone rock hard by now.
When you come to reinstalling this with your new o-ring apply some of the same ultra blue to the o-ring but only a light smear around it. Stops them from leaking

[somefool]

that bastard pipe just doesnt wanna come out of the timing cover, the seal must be fused. Ive just about pierced a hole in it with the vice grips tomorrow ill head to recpo and get some of that aerosol 'cold in a can' - i cant remember exactly what it is called.

yep ive got blue silicone gasket maker that should do the job for the valley gaskets.

Any tips as to getting the fuel injectors out of the manifold? I reckon that ill just strip the manifold, degrease it and use the gurney on it to get the crap off it + razor the mating surfaces

[Jxw]

if there's room (i've done this on a buick v6) rotate the pipe so the bracket is facing towards the front of the car.
sit 1 hand behind the tip where the hose goes on to guide it and stop it from moving on an angle, it can crack the aluminium case if it is allowed to move on an angle (have never cracked one myself).
gently tap where the bracket is welded to the pipe outwards away from the timing cover with a hammer.

it won't be fused it'll be the corrosion has built up around the oring..... can be a prick to get out.

[somefool]

got it out using your method mate, cheers. It took the combined effort of both me ith vice grips and dad with mini stilsons to rotate the bleedin' thing! o-ring was trashed- obviously. ..aand so is the pipe :/ haha

[Jxw]

there's your problem, it's %^&$ed, i did say to tap it gently lol