VN-VP-VR motor history
I just want to share this info so it doesn't get lost, In the states our buick V6's were installed in front wheel drive cars
The series one VN motor is called the "VIN C" code LN3
It came in the following buick cars
1988-1990 Electra, Park Ave, Park Ave Ultra, Riveria, Reatta, LeSabre 3800
1991 LeSabre 3800
The VN series 2 and VP-VR EV6 motor is called the "VIN L" code L27
It came in these buick cars
1990 Regal 3800
1991 Park Ave, Park Ave Ultra, Riveria, Reatta, Regal 3800
1992-1993 Park Ave, LeSabre, Regal 3800
Of most interest is a Supercharged option called the "VIN 1" code 627
Is shares all the same parts as the EV6 except different rods so you should be able to bolt the manifold and supercharger from one of these straight onto a series 2 VN through to the VR
It came in the following buicks
1991-1993 Park Ave, Park Ave Ultra
I think these engines also came in Chevy Camaros I'll edit this post when I research that some more
Also there was a Tuned length inlet manifold for the EV6 motor in 1991? or 92
I've attached some photos, VIN C manifold and or? the early EV6 manifold, the second picture is the tuned length EV6 manifold. A VIN C engine in a Pontiac and a VIN L (EV6 VP) motor with the tuned manifold.
The tuned manifold EV6 engine in the states made 220 foot pound of torque vs 200 foot pounds on the earlier manifold.
Added a picture of the 1995 Buick Riviera Supercharged engine, that setup should bolt on a series two VN, VP and VR
Last edited by greenfoam; 01-01-2006 at 02:49 AM.
What about supercharging the series 1 VN motor ?
It's ok but you have to use the VP heads, to fit the supercharger manifold, I've been thinking that manifold would need probably need a bit of cutting and welding at the back to fit inside the engine bay on the VN-VROriginally Posted by DF_Media
Spoon?
Don't like our chances. Their all east west so they have a lot mor elenght to play with than our north souths.
Their was guy on street commodores forum trying to get an aussies supercharger for his ecotec because it was in one of the few cars that mounted the ecotec north south (rwd I think) and as such he could fit the american version off hte east wests.
i could have sworn the 3.8L V6 was off the 1986 [?] buick Grand National, and a twin turbo [from the factory] in the GNX, a limited edition last run model...
if anyone wants a complete kit for a series 1 vn I have a sc14 with castlemaine rod shop pipping and all the other bits needed e.g extra long belt blow off valve extra pulleys to go from 3 pond to 9 pound
posted this 11/1/06
Physics Geek
That's a nice little history there. Is there any truth to the story I've heard that the VN V6 buick motor was actually used in some police persuit vehicles in the U.S.A. in the mid-late 80's? I heard that one the other day, and I quite like it, but I'd like to get it confirmed. Anyone?
Gravity is proof that nature keeps getting us down.
Holden Tech Apprentice
i want one of those engine covers.
Brain function fading .
The motor dates back to 62 doesn't it?(started as a truck motor). I know that GM added the balance shaft for their 88 model cars (which helped Holden make their final decision) but the fuel injection system on our motors was designed purely for the Commodore, and in Australia. I don't know if this is correct but I believe we had higher power and torque figures also for the standard motor.
There was a turbo model produced from the mid 80's that was quick (mid 6's 0-60mph) and yes, some did serve as Police cars. Don't know how many or in what states though, I just recall reading it in reference to the VN motors. The turbo was the performance leader of all cars using this motor at the time.
Would be interesting to see comparison figures for the motors.
Never
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gesss they look funny sitting east-west in an engine bay.....
:my:
if you further investigate,you will find that the first buick east-west motor came out in 1957
not entirely true,the reason for the power output in our first commodore V6 was because it was imported from the states and put in north south,and GMH didn't realise how powerfull these motors were in this direction,so they had to revise the output when they started to produce the commodore V6 here in australia...series 2 .balance shafts were already in place from states,thats why they had a bad run on balance shafts when they were first introduced into australia,because the motors had been sitting aaround in the states for ages
Physics Geek
Maybe I'm missing something, but why should the engine be any more powerful if it was mounted N-S compared to E-W? I wouldn't have thought that there'd be any difference.
A motor is a motor is a motor, regardless of orientation, isn't it?
Gravity is proof that nature keeps getting us down.
but it would go faster fwd cars arent as fast as rwd cars. saying u had 127kw east west it wont hook up as well, but in a rwd car it will work better dont ask me the reason it just does. i no nothing aboutpyscias but its easyer to push a car then to pull it with a motor... wow that doesnt really make sence. kinda like why u dont se fwd drag cars they are all rwd because they meh i tryed.
Donating Member
My guess about E-W vs N-S. is about the torque reaction (think of how the motor would want to spin if the motor mounts failed), the motor has to push against something to spin the wheels. In an E-W motor the torque reaction is fighting/working with (depending on the gearing) the motion of the wheels. In a N-S engine the motor wants to spin left or right which is perpendicular to the driving wheel force.
Just a guess but it kind of makes sense, anyone else want to weigh in?
Mike
wooo wooo alot of people getting some wild imaginations here : )
The USA version and the Australian version make the same power. The USA verison is MAF the Australian version is MAP. The very earlier rear wheel drive versions right through to the infamous grand national turbo buick V6's are similar to the the VN motor since they are still a version of the buick V6. But they are not the same, the FWD VIN C is
well the yanks had it power outputted for front wheel drive,now this is an arguable thing,but an east west motor put into a north south position for rear wheel drive(remembering the yanks diff ratios are completely different to ours) will give you more grunt whether it be low down or high up...thats why a VN can spin the rears in all gears in the dry.thats why the VN's are so popular because they produce mean burnouts(younger generation and probaly a few of the older generations)
in 1989 GMH imported a million or so V6 buick motors,they were excess stock from GM in the states,they had been sitting around for years,and when put in to the VN,there were quite a few problems with them...welch plugs,balance shaft bearings and quite a few other things,GMH had a re-call on all vehicles fitted with the then buick v6 which included the 1990 calais's.thats when GMH decided to make their own V6 91 onwards...series 2
the yanks didn't change much in the way of the buick V6 since 1957,until they got into the sportier cars.it's like unleaded fuel, the yanks switched over in 1965...when did we switch to unleaded?1986?
Physics Geek
About the only thing that I can think of is that the weight transfer would mean that you're less likely to spin the wheels in the RWD layout. As for the actual engine itself, I can't see why the power output would be any different from FWD to RWD (not if you measured at the flywheel anyway). That's the bit that I'm struggling to understand.
As for the 'rocking' of the engine working for/against the acceleration of a FWD car, most are set so that the engine rocks forwards shifting the main mass of the engine further forward thus aiding traction by providing more downforce on the driving wheels.
And yes, I'm a physics nerd.
Gravity is proof that nature keeps getting us down.
Now i finally know why the thermostat was mounted at the rear of the engine in the series one (dam fwds!)
Brain function fading .
Re: My previous post. I stated that the balance shafts were fitted for the 88 production cars in America. This is true but can be misleading as the motors were prepared in 84 + 85, hence the available motors that holden acquired had indeed been sitting for some time. Holden had a look at this motor previously, minus the balance shaft, and were not really interested. I am sure ,but I will have to look it up, that the 88 Yank motor put out 109Kw compared to 125Kw forthe VN. Could be different standard though as in Flywheel or At the wheels.
I could be wrong as I have been before and I'm old and on medication.
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*LOL* so am i mate old and on medication.....the V6 wouldn't perform properly with out a balance shaft.i'm not saying your wrong,all i'm saying is the buick V6 has been out since 1957 as an east west motor,with no major changes,similar to our GMH they didn't really change anything till the first lot of commodores came out,they did make some bigger changes from VN onwards
Donating Member
re my previous. Pitty it sounded like a good story. I did say it was a guess. So there is no E-W vs N-S issue with engines?
Mike
I Read a long thread writtin by a guy that worked on the production line and he knew which motors went to Holden, also the VIN L motor in the states has EV6 on the block just like the series 2 motor and also has the same heads/manifold (different to the VIN C/VN motor)
Brain function fading .
Did some research on the subject and Greenfoam is correct.
It is also correct that the balance shaft was first fitted for the 88 motor.
The American power and torque figures are near identical at 165hp ( x .7457) = 123.04Kw and 220lbf/ft (x 1.355) = 298.1nm for the 88, 89 + 90 models.
In the book "Project VN" by Pedr Davis and Tony Davis, published by Marque Publishing, it states that there were more than 100 changes made to the motor for the Commodore. Most minor changes but a lot of head work was required for better waterflow as the motor had to sit at a three degree rearward lean which created problems with the flow. The inlet manifold was locally designed to accomodate the air temp sensor required by the Delco engine management system. Holden used the Aussie Delco Speed Density unit (as fitted to the Family II engines) instead of the Delco sequential injection system used on BOC vehicles. Different fuel rails and throttle body as well. This book also states that the motors were fully assembled here.
I think I'll read more before typing next time. Can't just blame my memory.
Last edited by Pretender; 13-01-2006 at 05:24 AM.
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