1227165 & ALDL in a V8 VP

[Chuff]

Howdy All,

I recently bought a 1227165 ECU from the US of A, and am now running it in my V8 VP. Problem is I can't log any ALDL data as my 160 Baud cable to suit the 1227808 doesn't work with the 1227165.

I searched this forum as well as the internet trying to track down exactly what I need to do the job, and this seems to be the most accepted layout for reading 8192 Baud ALDL data:

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/aldl8192/8192hw.htm

There's heaps more out there, but they all pretty much work along the same lines as the above.

Now I believe this is probably the correct ALDL Interface for reading the 1227165, but what concerns me is the Vehicle Interface. I'm not too sure if the VP ALDL plug in the vehicle will be providing the right information. If you look at the 6 Pin Australian connector, which is what I have, there is no M pin which is what ALDL Interface expects for the 8192 Baud Data.

Has anyone successfully built a cable, and logged data to suit these requirements, and if so, what did you do?

Michaelw, I've read all your posts regarding cables. Very informative. Have you made a cable to suit this?

Thanks.

CATCH!

[greenfoam]

Chuff, just happens my brother has a VS manual 5 liter, what do you want me to investigate?

[Chuff]

Thanks for the offer greenfoam, but I'm not too sure you can help.

If you look at the link I posted earlier you'll see the VN/VP ALDL plug which you should now be very familiar with. Your brother's car won't have the same type, as it's a VS. You'll also see on that page that all the ALDL plugs listed have 8192 Baud Data, but not the VN/VP plug.

I'm hoping that with the 1227165 I have in my VP that the BLUE E port will now be outputting at 8192 baud, but I have no way of testing this short of buying an the later VR/VS ALDL cable at around $80, so I want to know if someone has already confirmed that the VR/VS cable modified to fit a VN/VP plug is going to read at 8192 baud with a 1227165 ECU.

Appreciate the offer.

CATCH!

[michaelw]

Ok, A few things I can do that might help.

1) I have a bunch of serial PCB's here that depending on how handy you are with a soldering iron you can make up and see if it works.

2) I could make a usb version of the VR/VS/VT cable and put the VN pins on it and send you a pin housing as well.

One problem I foresee is that you will need the correct configuration files for your computer, which program are you running on the memcal?

Where are you? If you are in Sydney we could sort something out.

Oh and if you buy something from me and it doesn't work I'll refund the money (less postage).

Mike

[Chuff]

Ok, A few things I can do that might help.

1) I have a bunch of serial PCB's here that depending on how handy you are with a soldering iron you can make up and see if it works.

2) I could make a usb version of the VR/VS/VT cable and put the VN pins on it and send you a pin housing as well.

One problem I foresee is that you will need the correct configuration files for your computer, which program are you running on the memcal?

Where are you? If you are in Sydney we could sort something out.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the offer.

I'm new to electronics, but I'm giving it a go as I really would like to learn more about this stuff. That said, I'd be interested in giving the PCB's a go. Are these along the same lines as the ALDL Interface I posted up earlier? How much do you want for the PCB? Can you also supply the other components needed to finish the job? Finally, if/when things do go belly up, how much for the USB cable with the VN pins and pin housing?

With regards to software, I have the following installed on my EFI test laptop:

• WinALDL
• TunerPRO
• TunerPRO RT
• Data Master
• CarBytes
• EFI Live V4
• Elan Scan
• CATS
• Free Scan
• Moates ECM852

Out of all of these I will try TunerPRO RT & CarBytes, as I already have the ALDL Data-stream definitions for the VR/VS V8 ECUs for these packages.

The Binary in the 1227165 will be the 32 bit VR one sent to me by greenfoam, using a $12 mask.

I'm in Melbourne.

CATCH!

[michaelw]

The PCB is based on a different design to the techedge version, as I said in my thread about DIY scantools the VS V8 dosen't work with that interface. I was selling the PCB alone for about $7. But you can get all the componets (except the VN/VP plug) from a dick smith's or a Jaycar.

How about $15 for the PCB and the VN plug and postage, the other parts should cost you about $10 at most from Dick smiths.

Mike

[Chuff]

The PCB is based on a different design to the techedge version, as I said in my thread about DIY scantools the VS V8 dosen't work with that interface. I was selling the PCB alone for about $7. But you can get all the componets (except the VN/VP plug) from a dick smith's or a Jaycar.

How about $15 for the PCB and the VN plug and postage, the other parts should cost you about $10 at most from Dick smiths.

Mike

Sounds good to me. Does it come with a good schematic so I can at least attempt to follow it?

Also, how big is the PCB, to give me some idea of the intricacy of what I am in for?

Thanks.

CATCH!

[michaelw]

Here is a pic of the pcb (well screen grab anyway). The board is 60x40mm in size. The only tricky bit is that I muffed the PCB making so you have to put the max232 on the track side of the board, everything else goes on the other side.

I'll send you a printed copy of the schematic as well.

Mike

[Chuff]

Here is a pic of the pcb (well screen grab anyway). The board is 60x40mm in size. The only tricky bit is that I muffed the PCB making so you have to put the max232 on the track side of the board, everything else goes on the other side.

I'll send you a printed copy of the schematic as well.

Mike

OK, that look scary. Man that's small.

I'm thinking I might be better of just buying the cable. How much for a standard USB->VS cable?

When I built my VN cable I built the VN plug on a separate line which connects via a DB9 plug. All the ALDL circuitry is in the DB9 of the main cable. That way I could remove the VN portion and use it elsewhere. Figured it might be a good idea if I ever bought a 1227165.

Using your USB->VS cable, I can cut the ALDL plug of a wrecked VR/VS and stick a DB9 on the loose end and that could let me then connect my VN plug. Al least that way, if it doesn't work, I can still sell the USB->VS cable to a VS owner.

CATCH!

[michaelw]

They cost $70, send me an email michaelgw@gmail.com and I'll give you bank details and the like. To give you an idea what they look like I have attached a photo. But this is the old version (no digital camera) the new one has a usb socket in the back instaed of the usb cable.

I'll also throw in a few pcbs of the serial version so you can give it a go.....

Mike

[Chuff]

Hey Mike,

Got the USB -> ALDL stuff yesterday. Nice, quality looking product you've got there. Can't wait to try it. As for the PCBs you sent, it was what I suspected. Too fiddly for me, so I'm glad I just bought it ready made.

I haven't had time to get the extra parts I need to hook up the VR ALDL interface into the VN ALDL plug, but as soon as I get what I need I'll let you know how it all goes.

Also, I've been in contact with a guy that has gone down the 808 to 165 route, and he has proven to be a godsend. Once I get it all up and running and figured out how it all works I'll post what needs to done.

CATCH!

[VL400]

ALDL on a VN/VP uses pin A5 (same pin as the check engine light) on a VR/VS the 8192 ALDL data is on pin A8, CEL is still on A5.

You need to add a wire to the factory harness as A8 is not populated, easy way (not cheap though) is to buy a HSV knock sensor harness and plug it into pin A8 instead of B11 like you normally would for adding a knock sensor. The cheapest way is to go to pick-a-part and "borrow" a wire with the pin attached from a VN/VP/VR/VS/Camira harness.

Also there is no need for the 10k resistor on the diagnostic request pin to get it into ALDL like you have to do on a VN/VP, due to the bi-directional data link with 8192 you request info from the ECM using a data frame and it responds.

[Chuff]

ALDL on a VN/VP uses pin A5 (same pin as the check engine light) on a VR/VS the 8192 ALDL data is on pin A8, CEL is still on A5.

You need to add a wire to the factory harness as A8 is not populated, easy way (not cheap though) is to buy a HSV knock sensor harness and plug it into pin A8 instead of B11 like you normally would for adding a knock sensor. The cheapest way is to go to pick-a-part and "borrow" a wire with the pin attached from a VN/VP/VR/VS/Camira harness.

Also there is no need for the 10k resistor on the diagnostic request pin to get it into ALDL like you have to do on a VN/VP, due to the bi-directional data link with 8192 you request info from the ECM using a data frame and it responds.

Hey VL400,

What you've posted is pretty much what I have been told, but I haven't tried it yet. Wish I could stop working long enough to go to pick-a-part!

How's that "modify your ECU to program on the fly" web page going.

CATCH!

[VL400]

soon mate, been pretty busy but the project is moving forward. Got someone else working on the windows PC software and it is coming along nicely. The ECU code has been heavily modified but still needs alot of testing. At this stage i cant see anything that is ready for release for a number of months yet. A webpage will be made once its closer to release.

[Chuff]

soon mate, been pretty busy but the project is moving forward. Got someone else working on the windows PC software and it is coming along nicely. The ECU code has been heavily modified but still needs alot of testing. At this stage i cant see anything that is ready for release for a number of months yet. A webpage will be made once its closer to release.

Thanks mate.

Sorry if it sounded like nagging, but after that last post I had a bit of a look as to what you have been posting lately and it seems that quite a few of the treads I am subscribed to have not been emailing to me, hence, I've missed quite a bit.

So I went over some of your recent posts and found you mentioned using a DS1230Y NV SRAM which lead me to this:

http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/EasyRtpV10

This is for a Honda, but I think the principle should be the same. Interesting!

Let me know if I can help. I'm a code cruncher by day, rev head by night.

CATCH!

[VL400]

Nah thats cool, hadnt really given any updates lately though.

I hadnt seen the honda one before but from the quick look id say they are probably doing somthing similar. The way mine works is I have a memcal adapter that has a DS1230Y (looking at moving to a different SRAM though) in place of the original EPROM and write to it through ALDL. Have added a couple of extra ALDL modes in the ECM code that take care of the writing, so it is possible to re-flash the operating system and/or calibration data, it can be done byte by byte or blocks of bytes depending on the command sent to the ECM. The byte-by-byte write is the basis for the real-time editing feature.

So yeah once i have more info i will post an update.

[Chuff]

UPDATE!

Finally got around to getting the ECU wires from Pick-a-part so I can tap into the A8 slot in the ECU. Also got a VR ALDL plug from the same place. Couldn't believe I found not 1 but 2 VR commodores at Pick-a-part. :my:

Anyway, I did what was required and after stuffing around with EFILive finally got it to talk to the 165 ECU.

What's got me beat is the EFILive logs ALDL for about 10 seconds then stops. How can you get anything meaningful out of 10 seconds. I've read through the manual and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. Is because it's using an Evaluation license or how I stuffed up again?

Please help. At least with the 808 ECU & WinALDL I could log for as log as I liked. Can EFILive do the same?

CATCH!

[michaelw]

I think it is the evaluation licence. I thought it was 20 seconds.

Mike

[Chuff]

Oh man, that's not enough.

Guess I may have to consider buying EFILive. Do you know of any other software which allows better ALDL logging. I love WinALDL but it's only good for 160 baud. I wish it worked for 8192.

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[foammedia]

Chuffy, TunerPRO RT will do it

[Chuff]

Chuffy, TunerPRO RT will do it

Well after that previous post I thought about that, so I went out to the car and had a go with TunerPRO RT. It connects but doesn't run correctly. The RPM stays on idle, not moving at all, the TPS is all over the place when I'm not even pushing the throttle. Something weird going on here. I'm thinking that it may be the VN/VR plug configuration I'm using, as this is a 165 in a VP. Also, I haven't ported across all the pins in the VR plug, so there may be something missing. What I've basically done is wired the standard VP ALDL into a VR ALDL plug, which I then plug the ALDL Cable into. In addition, I have 1 extra wire going to A8 in the ECU.

Mate across the road has a VR so I might go test things in his car to see if it works correctly on not.

CATCH!

[michaelw]

Mate don't worry too much about the pins. Only two pins are connected in the interface.

Mike

[Chuff]

Mate don't worry too much about the pins. Only two pins are connected in the interface.

Mike

Hey Mike,

If that's the case, then I would have thought a lot more people would have problems connecting to a VR/VS with TunerPRO RT for ALDL. Don't get me wrong, I believe I only need the 2 pins connected as well, but if it works fine on a VR/VS, then where's the problem.

I'll find out when I connect to the neighbor's car. Just gotta wait for him to recover from last night's party.

CATCH!