Why do VP's seem to go faster than the VR's according to the magazine road tests?

[muso]

I know it seems a pointless question (and I don't want to start a VP's are better than VR's war) but it's more a point of academic interest.

According to the road test the VP is considerably quicker 0-100kph than the VR (8.6 secs (vp) versus 9.2 (vr) and 0-400m 16.2 (vp) versus 16.6 secs (vr) in spite of the VR's slight power increase and very little difference in weight.

And then the VS in spite of a considerable power increase still only seems to match the VP in acceleration but with more refinement

Could it be the change over from hydramatic to electronic shifting along with rolling refinement in the throttle body? I know that both the VP and the VR certainly get off the line quicker than my VX (similar power but 200kg heavier) I am refering to getting to the other side of the intersection 1st gear type acceleration and not stupid bogan type street racing exceeding gazetted speed limits and killing families etc.

[Boonz]

could of been due to the weather at the time of the test.... traction, tyres, driver,fuel,road surface....theres a number of things that can make a difference during tests becuase its hard to have a controlled environment

[muso]

could of been due to the weather at the time of the test.... traction, tyres, driver,fuel,road surface....theres a number of things that can make a difference during tests becuase its hard to have a controlled environment

Yes there are a lot of variables. Congrats on the 5 litre time

[greenfoam]

Muso, you made a typo with the 1/4 mile times, where the VP should be 15.6 and you had 16.6. But yeah I've driven VR's and they don't seem to be really any slower than a VN or VP in actual real life so I don't know what was going on in the road tests they are only 20 or 30kg heavier than a VP. There are guys on this forum that have done nothing more than straighten the throttle body and install a CAI and run 15.6 in a VR auto V6 on a drag strip so they do go allright. The VS/T/X/ usually makes 100-110rwkw on a dyno and the VN-VP will make 95-105rwkw and the VN probably makes the most low down torque of any of those models. The VS is also another 50kgs heavier than the VR so the slight extra power wont make up for that especailly compared to a VN/P.

The base model VT is a full 250kgs heavier than the base model VN/P and that's when its only pumping slightly slightly more power than a VN/P it's never going to be anywhere near it performance wise.

Not sure why the specs say the VT is 80kgs heavier than a VX and 50kgs? heavier than a VY but that might explain why all the really fast Gen III executives are VX's ??

[Full Spectrum]

I think it's in the Transmissions, the more Electronic Transmission from Vr on wards was more restrictive on launch to hold back wheel spin as much as they could.

[muso]

[QUOTE=greenfoam]Muso, you made a typo with the 1/4 mile times

Yes my bad, I have edited it now to the correct times, magazine tests are not always the most accurate way to determine a car's performance, an old 1989 R31 GX Skyline auto, beige colour, some rust, missing hubcap etc. being driven by a 'P' plater kid blew the door handles off my VX once I was out of 1st gear, it was uphill a bit so my cars weight would not have helped but he was right next to me even in 1st gear.

I come home from work on a 100 kph highway which has a few traffic lights so you can legally go up to 100kph from the traffic lights, those damn R31 Skylines can really go, I used to own one, they run 3.89 diff gears stock, but the magazine write ups suggest that they are far slower than my VX (0-100 8.8 0-400 16.2) R31 Skyline auto (0-100 10.4sec & 0-400 17.4sec)
I'm a bit of a fan of the R31 Skylines

P.S. Yes the early VN V6's really haul arse don't they!

[muso]

I think it's in the Transmissions, the more Electronic Transmission from Vr on wards was more restrictive on launch to hold back wheel spin as much as they could.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could "unrestrict" it back to VN series 1 level :my:
The VR's I've driven all seem to go well and so do VP's.
VP+P plater = Burnout

[TAILS83]

the vn series 1 went hard due to it's low ratio 1st gear and lumpier cam, the series 2 motor was more refined. not as lumpy and first gear was changed to make it more drivable.
the vt series 1 had big side intrusion bars in the doors which in the series 2 were lightened which made it alot lighter.

[manvr]

i had a vr 5sp and now i got a vn 5sp and the vr was quicker, but thats because the vn is older and has done 70 thousand more km's.

[greenfoam]

All the gear ratios are the same in the turbo 700's right through the Commodores, the only reason the VN seems to have a different first gear is because it's ripping through it faster but it's the same ratio as all the others

[pandaman]

Turtle power made a good point about the auto tranny's being electronically controlled from VR onwards, I've found the elctronic shifted TH700 to be an absolute dog compared to the old school ones. Shouldn't really affect it in a straight line though so meh, I dunno.

[muso]

I think it's something to do with the throttle body and the tuning which made the VN series 1 so fast off the mark, I also read that when buyers had traded up from the VL to the series 1 VN they missed the smoothness of the sweet Nissan 6 and the Jatco 4 speed auto box, that along with grannies driving through shop windows because off it's great throttle response (blip the throttle 3 mm and move 3 meters) caused the refinement and toning down of the series 2 VN's.

[Full Spectrum]

Wouldn't it be nice if you could "unrestrict" it back to VN series 1 level :my:
The VR's I've driven all seem to go well and so do VP's.
VP+P plater = Burnout

Yes and thank god when i had my new Tranny just done i didn't ask for the more electronic trannys to be stuck in my car, I was thinking about it.
I would love to drive a VS with VN Auto, Thats the problem with electronic stuff it can be tunned. I rang Herrod for my brother about his BA's slow take off's, He was saying that they can get into anything on cars as soon as they got smarter making them more electronic they can tap into anything,

Turtle power made a good point about the auto tranny's being electronically controlled from VR onwards, I've found the elctronic shifted TH700 to be an absolute dog compared to the old school ones. Shouldn't really affect it in a straight line though so meh, I dunno.

My friend has a VR Berlina and it's smoother but slower,
Then way back in 95 we Hired a new VS Commodore, It was like missing 5 cylinders on take off it was a real disappointment, No doubt the engine was better more refined tranny was smooth, But you always felt that car was retarded on launch, At speeds 40kp/h cruising it would bite hard on kick downs was great, But just don't take off fast and expect a great fast response, If i had one today i would love to have the tranny looked at and see if something has been programed in there to stop hard launches.
But if i could have a VS tomorrow i would NP.
I also drove my other mates VN Lexus, Out of all the Buick engines the VN's sound different inside, And they do feel more alive and less safe to be honest

[elljay]

I think it's in the Transmissions, the more Electronic Transmission from Vr on wards was more restrictive on launch to hold back wheel spin as much as they could.

i agree with turtle power. my mates vp changes gears quicker and rougher then my vs

[fitzy2005]

yea same, but mind you in your case its prlly the ecotec engine too..

[Full Spectrum]

i agree with turtle power. my mates vp changes gears quicker and rougher then my vs

I have a knew tranny and they are not the best things every made Shift fast but shift harder. My mums not very happy about it cause we spent $1100 on it so she expected it to be perfect. It's not but it's good 10 times better then before it does what it's told to all the time

yea same, but mind you in your case its prlly the ecotec engine too..

There are many that have done things to there throttle body's, Changed programs in the ECU, And still can't get the stock VN-VP times, Cause they are still slightly slow off the mark, But i wonder how anyone has gone with a shift kit:my:

[muso]

I know it's been said before like it or lump it the VN and VP is probably the quickest of the V6 (Buick\Ecotec) Commodores, VP's are at the other side of the lights when my VX is still thinking about moving.

I think on one of the Holden Forums there was a thread asking which was the quickest V6 and according to road tests and after much debate I think it was a toss up between the series 1 VN and the VP, I think the VP went a bit harder than the tamed down series 2 VN.

[Full Spectrum]

This has got to be proof, I just had a run with a VN V8 LSD the words this thing roared hard he was behind me getting it sideways with every hard input on the throttle, And it's only auto.
Anyway one thing leads to another before you know it (I don't condone racing) But we were at it for the next 30 seconds. And blow me down no ****en shit my car keeped it behind and it closed but not very fast, I was more shocked then maybe him, But i can't stop shaken it's the real first head to head i have done like that that has lasted that long,
It went from a little stab to the roundabout to threw it sideways and more, I don't think I'll go there again to chicken like the straights more less sideways

When i asked about the price for my Transmission 2 months ago, The price was the same for both VN and VP, Because he used the same Transmission for both, So i wouldn't be surprised if i have a VN transmission now?

[anfsvl]

cos vp rock lol..n i own one...lol vp rock

[Full Spectrum]

Oh yeah there pretty bloody good.

[[JUDGE]]

true that their phat

[Full Spectrum]

There fat with me in them