WINALDL use - analyse this?

[jack.mc]

Hey everyone,

Just went for a spin with my cable, and it generated the attached files. Can someone tell me what it means?

I got code 13, which i expected.

Thants a lot!

If I need to do something else to generate data, let me know.

Jack

[michaelw]

I took the data and in excell I plotted the o2 reading and the fault 13 vs time. It seems that your o2 readings go nuts after a while. I started to (you should continue) to plot them against speed, rpm and the like to see if any corrolation occurs.

My guess is that either the 02 sensor wiring or its earth (this is likely as the one wire O2 sensor uses the metal which is now a rusted to hell exhaust pipe) <- (well on mine anyway).

To test, run winaldl with the engine off (for obvious reasons) and wiggle the cable and see if this causes the readings to change. Failing that test with a multimeter the resistance of the body of the O2 sensor and the car's body.

Mike

[jack.mc]

will do. I have extractors, i think this is the problem with my o2 sensor. It should be earthing, as I sanded the thread of the extractors (where the sensor sits) enough to remove the coating. Maybe I should do this more? Will test resistance when i get the chance. ATM i'm wading through uni work, so I won't be doing anything too soon!

Thanks a lot for the quick response - hows that for after sales service!

[IBLOWN]

one of my oxy sensors had a bad earth once. so i can happen!

[michaelw]

I have heard (not sure though) that you can get a 2 wire sensor and just join the second wire to a KNOWN earth.

Are you sure that the extractors are properly earthed?

Did you use the propper thread sealant on the O2 sensor? I hear the wrong stuff will kill it (again I am not sure of details but someone here will be). My money is still on the earth going bad as the extractor/manifold heats up.

Mike

Here at crazy mike's we like to keep people happy.

[jack.mc]

I would be so happy if it was! I saw REGULAR UNLEADED for 1.35 today, and today was my fillup day . Needless to say, i'm just going to run on fumes until it goes back to 1.20 or so :angry: what hapened to 'buying patterns' and 'cheap tuesday'!!! Maybe I'lll check it sooner rather than later...

[jack.mc]

the sensor came pre-coated, so it should be right! lol @ crazy mikes! Will check the earth when i get a few minutes... could be weeks away! I'm thinking tonight will be an all-nighter, gotta go stock up on V

[jack.mc]

one of my oxy sensors had a bad earth once. so i can happen!

did it make a big difference when you fixed it?

And Mike (or anyone), what should the O2 sensor graph look like?

Thanks

[jack.mc]

i have no multimeter experience, so bear with me.

resistance between extractors and bare metal body work in engine bay is between 30 and 90 with multimeter set on "200" in the ohm bit.

I could not get any reading between the body of the sensor and the extractors.

I'm guessing this means that extractors are earthed, sensor is not? Please help!!

UPDATE

I got a reading between extractors and sensor, and then sensor and engine, but it was very sketchy, varying between 1 and 100, on the same setting.

[michaelw]

remember that all was well for a bit then everything went pear shapped. 30-90 ohms is a pretty big reading. To give you some idea of what is acceptable measure bits of the engine.

I just measured 1 ohm from the alternator body to the exhaust manifold (too hot to reach the o2 sensor ATM)

Money is still on the earthing

Mike

[jack.mc]

the stable bit i think was when i was sitting still at home in the driveway, and i think (hope!) its an earthing problem as well. Should i try cleanig up the interior thread of the extractors a bit more? I think i'll do that, then measure resistance from the inside thread to a patch of bare metal on the extractors.

Am i right in thinking that this is where the problem is? connection between sensor and extractors? thanks for the help

[VL400]

During closed loop the O2 sensor voltage fluctuates between an upper and lower voltage, this is due to the way a cat converter works. Using 8192baud ALDL you get the number of cross counts to determine if the sensor is working as it should. The sensor is doing what it should in the above graph.

You can also see when the code 13 was generated at the start of the graph above, a code 13 is when the sensor voltage does not vary outside 354mV to 561mV for around 2 seconds. If the sensor is disconnected it reads about 400mV hence a code 13 is called "O2 Sensor Open".

Edit: you said you have extractors, it is a common cause for single wire O2 sensor errors due to the sensor not being hot enough at idle when it is moved further from the exhaust port. A heated O2 sensor can fix this.

[jack.mc]

OK, So where should i get a heated o2 sensor from to suit my car, and how much are they?

As i mentioned, the stable part of the graph is what it generates when i'm sitting still. I shouldn't be getting code 13 every time i stop, right?

[VL400]

I know the VR autos used a heated O2 (and poss manuals but not sure), but any generic 4 wire sensor is fine. You will need to make some wiring changes like providing a 12v feed from the ignition, the heater circuit is normally 12w so draws about 1A @ 12v so will flatten the battery pretty quickly while the engine is off if its just a constant 12v feed.

The ECU controls the fuel according the O2 sensor voltage, the idea is to get an average AFR of 14.7:1 after the cat for the lowest emmisions. In simple terms the cat stores oxygen when leaner than 14.7:1 and releases it when richer than 14.7:1 so it can reduce certain gases. This is why the ECU commands the oscillating AFR. If the O2 sensor is a little too cold it becomes sluggish and cannot react quickly to the ECU switching the fuel rich and lean, and when it is really cold (relatively speaking, still far too hot to touch) it flatlines like what you are seeing.

[jack.mc]

ok thinks for that. I'll see how i go. I would far prefer it to be an earthing problem!

[Frd_thmsn]

To give you some earthing figures to aim for.
From O2 body to throttle body 1.2 ohms
O2 body to chassis same and O2 to battery.The meter I used has some resistance in the leads so that is close enough to zero.
So yours sounds a bit high.
I did put extra earth straps on mine because of electrical problems before.
One from the bolt just under alternator to battery negative and from that bolt another one to the chassis.

Some of the heated O2 sensors might be 5V so make sure you don't get one of those, they are a wideband sensor and better, but won't give the right signal back to the ECU.
I am pretty sure the VR sensor isn't a heated one , just a 2 wire one.

[michaelw]

Just to confuse the issue, for your entertainment I post the results of my brand new O2 sensor. It looks like yours is not heating up (note how mine goes to 1V). So I will bow to VL's knowledge on this one. I change my vote to the heating issue.

Sorry.

Mike

[jack.mc]

yup, mine still looks pretty different!! So, whats the go with heated sensors?

[jack.mc]

Heres another one:

[_Mukas_]

you want o2 sensors, i work at bosch so i can get access to them pretty cheap... PM if you need them and i can see what i can do...

[muggie]

Hey everyone,

Just went for a spin with my cable, and it generated the attached files. Can someone tell me what it means?

I got code 13, which i expected.

Thants a lot!

If I need to do something else to generate data, let me know.

Jack

Jack,
Also check for a sticking or misadjusted Throttle Position Sensor.
This will also cause code 13.

muggie

[jack.mc]

ok, what should the normal figures be for TPS? I think mine was -1.2 (from memory). Someone please explain!!

[muggie]

ok, what should the normal figures be for TPS? I think mine was -1.2 (from memory). Someone please explain!!

Jack, this is from my vp.

[jack.mc]

heres my equivalent of that...

[muggie]

heres my equivalent of that...

Jack, only one thing wrong, what colours represent what!!!!!!!!!!