expressions of interest in a palm V scanning tool?

[vnstu]

remember the old palm V touchscreen PDAs?

i'm working on some code so they can decode the datastream from early VN computers, similiar to a scan tool

i'm wondering if anyone is interested, either in the program itself (free) or in a kit with a programmed palm and a cable (not free).

i'm also wondering what features people would be interested in. it has the ability to datalog and i guess you could even use it as a trip computer.

i'm also wondering about a good way to mount it so it is accessible and readable to the driver.

thoughts?

stu

[jack.mc]

that sounds very cool, but I won't commit to anything. I'll be interested to see how it goes.

[hinterland]

sounds great idea need one for the ecotech and ill put my hand up,far as mounting use same holder as gps use suction cap on the screen trick.

[vnstu]

that sounds very cool, but I won't commit to anything. I'll be interested to see how it goes.

nods, i'm not trying to sell units before they exist ;-)

but if enough people are interested i'll put more effort into it to try to make it more... commercial? professional looking?

when i do things for myself they tend to be serious hack jobs :-P

[vnstu]

sounds great idea need one for the ecotech and ill put my hand up,far as mounting use same holder as gps use suction cap on the screen trick.

development for later models will depend on how much trouble i have with this.

the advantage of this particular set up is the old VN computer is 160 baud... really slow, and the palm v, which is low on processing power, can manage the datastream.

plus i have a couple of old palm v's, and a VN :-P

later models have different ECUs, higher data rates, and more capabilities, which means a more modern PDA and a different code to manage it all.

which i want to do, but first things first...

[jack.mc]

You might be able to mount it like the pic of the SV6000? its on here somewhere, seems like the logical place (centre console somewhere)

[vnstu]

You might be able to mount it like the pic of the SV6000? its on here somewhere, seems like the logical place (centre console somewhere)

HSV’s Limited Edition SV6000

you'd have to take your eyes off the road though to look at it.

i was thinking about up around the cluster somewhere, but it cant be too close to the steering wheel because if there are menus it'll need to be in easy reach

[Warooda]

I have seen a laser screen for a palm III. It is attached to the palm via a cable and would display the screen in red on any flat surface, including glass... headsup display for the data maybe.. wouldn't be cheap though..

[defa]

i would be fairly keen on the program or even the hole lot.. let us all know how you go..
how much would i be expecting to pay for a palm v and a cable..

[defa]

also.. is the palm Vx the same sort of thing???

[fazz1977]

Sounds like a kick-arse idea. Keep us posted about how it goes and I may think about getting one.

[xcop5l]

id be verry intrested in getting the program and the cabil but not the palm i want it for my lap top.im not sure what kind of signal the live data stream puts out but if your only looking to find codes its just as easy to use flash codes. i will start a new thread in how to retrive them and what they mean.

one thing to remember is that VN's have a verry limited live data.but it is still verry helpfull when finding faults.or a basic over view on what is going on under the bonet

[fu2]

sweet idea mate. i might be interested, have to see how it goes

[jack.mc]

id be verry intrested in getting the program and the cabil but not the palm i want it for my lap top.im not sure what kind of signal the live data stream puts out but if your only looking to find codes its just as easy to use flash codes. i will start a new thread in how to retrive them and what they mean.

one thing to remember is that VN's have a verry limited live data.but it is still verry helpfull when finding faults.or a basic over view on what is going on under the bonet

Search for winaldl and ALDL. thats all you need.

[Doctor Bob]

how about something for PPC??

[vnstu]

also.. is the palm Vx the same sort of thing???

yeah. palm Vx is a palm V with 8mb of ram instead of 2mb.

i'm trying to develop the software in a way that it should run on any palm from the palm III onwards, since new palms have legacy support. i do need to look into the cables for later models though.

i'm actually going to be writing the program for PC first then porting it to the palm, so i could supply if for pcs if it's really wanted. then again it's going to be a lot simpler than winaldl, it will be specific to 160 baud Vns, and have less datalogging capabilities. i'd still recommend winaldl for laptop users :-P

it's just i have a couple of old palms, and a VN.

[vnstu]

how about something for PPC??

whats a PPC?

[Doctor Bob]

pocket pc
windows mobile
imate jam
etc, etc.

Rob

[vnstu]

i would be fairly keen on the program or even the hole lot.. let us all know how you go..
how much would i be expecting to pay for a palm v and a cable..

$50 - $100 for a second hand palm from ebay or cash converters. I paid $50 for both of mine.

the cable will probably cost more than the palm. i'll probably end up posting a wiring diagram so people can make them themselves. it's similiar to the winaldl cable, i'd basically have to chop up a palm null modem cable and splice it into the winaldl cable. add $40ish to the cost of a winaldl cable. so anywhere up to $100.

it'll be a while yet though... programming for palm is painful. a program that prints "hello world" to the screen is around 4 lines on a pc - it's around 40 lines on a palm.

[defa]

sounds good anyway. keep us all posted on it

[anton1o]

Interested in all software PC/PPC/Palm/PDA

Cant wait to see the progress, and What it can do.. Im alredy looking at buying a PDA

[vnstu]

Interested in all software PC/PPC/Palm/PDA

Cant wait to see the progress, and What it can do.. Im alredy looking at buying a PDA

bump.

re prices

3Com Palm V + Serial Cradle + Modem Cradle $15.00 28-Jun 21:26 from ebay
serial cable is around $20 mark each from china via ebay
using a $2 gender bender it should be possible to connect the palm serial cable directly to a winaldl cable. no chopping.

that's the hardware sorted.

software wise, i've taken a massive shortcut. the image i've included is of a palm emulator talking to a PC running hyperterminal. the joys of palm basic :-P

all that remains is

a) teaching the palm to read the aldl serial line

b) interpretting the data.

but before anyone rushes out and buys stuff...

part a is going to be the hard bit. i already have the tables for part b from techedge. if anyone has any working knowledge of talking to a 160 uart baud serial line with a 2400 or 4800 baud resolution, it would make my life easier :-)

[anton1o]

Awesome mate, im still fully interested in this.. Just wondering what it can actually do if you could list its Functions.. Im still yet to know what it does =\

[vnstu]

pocket pc
windows mobile
imate jam
etc, etc.

Rob

i had a look, it should be possible to port to most PDA platforms once i get decent code base.

but it'll be while yet... gotta get a prototype working first

[vnstu]

Awesome mate, im still fully interested in this.. Just wondering what it can actually do if you could list its Functions.. Im still yet to know what it does =\

the Vn commodore is limited in functionality in that the computer has a one-way data stream with 20 different bits of information getting refreshed at once a second. of those probably 10 - 15 are probably useful to us.

you cannot change anything via the data stream. you can only read it.

the very first version of the palm software will do only one thing... it will display each sensor reading. tap the screen (the palm is a touchscreen) and it will move to the next sensor. there is engine speed and rpm, however it is only refreshed once a second, so it's not as good as a live gauge.

after that... well i havent thought that far ahead, that's why i asked for suggestions in an earlier post. a trip computer is easy. so is a 1/4 mile timer. or a fuel consumption calculator. all those things the guys with the later models take for granted. it will also have the ability to datalog - that is record data from driving and upload it to the PC for analysis and comparison. at 160 baud a 2mb palm can record over 3 hours of data. is your map sensor voltage slowly dropping over time? the oxygen sensor starting to degrade but not fail? did your kid borrow the car and drive around with the engine doing more than 3000rpm the whole time? all of those options are possible and i'll look at including, plus more if people can think of something.

this is straight from http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/aldl160/vn_aldl.htm and gives an idea of what's available from the ECU.

The message size for the VN V6 Automatic Commodore is 20 bytes long at a refresh rate of about 1.2 seconds (20 bytes data + SYNC character = 21 bytes, (21 x 9) / 160 = 1.18 seconds)
The content of the VN Commodores data stream is described in the table below showing the contents of the 20 data bytes.

Byte Name Description
---------------------------------------------------
1 MW2 Mode Word B2=EST mode, B6=Hi. batt. ind., B3/4/5=MODE, B3=BACKUP, B4=DIAGNOSTIC, B5=ALDL
2 PROMIDA PROM ID (MSB)
3 PROMIDB PROM ID (LSB)
4 ISSPMP IAC motor's current position
5 COOLDEGA Coolant temperature, temp in degrees C = (n x 0.75) - 40.
6 FILTMPH Vehicle Speed
7 ?? MAP sensor voltage (255 is 5.00 Volts)
8 NTRPMX Engine speed, RPM = n x 25
9 ADTHROT TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) voltage (255 is 5.00 Volts)
10 ?? Injector flow rate (100 = 8.3 g/h)
11 MAT Manifold air temperature, temp in degrees C is (n x 0.75) - 40.
12 MALFFLG1 Malfunction flag word 1
13 MALFFLG2 Malfunction flag word 2
14 MALFFLG3 Malfunction flag word 3
15 BLM Block Learn Multiplier
16 ADO2AF Oxygen sensor voltage
17 MCUINST MCU input status word, B0=*park/neutral, B1=*trans. O/T, B7=A/C req.
18 ADBAT Battery Voltage times 10
19 ?? Integrator
20 ?? Output word, B0=Fan relay, B1=A/C clutch, B2=Torque Conv. Clutch, B4=closed loop status