Memcal modifications

[yel327]

Guys

Just putting a late VP 5.0L into a HZ.
I've listed what I'm doing and wanted to just check that my method isn't flawed somehow.
Forget the installation into the car itself - that is all a no brainer! It's the ECU stuff I need help with.

Step 1. Put all 'stuff' into tonner, including 808 ECU and ASBX Memcal (I know it should be a BBPA but the ASBX will run it for now). Speed sensor will be an inline 2-pole Kalmaker unit.

Step 2. Once it's all up and running I want to convert it to a HSV program. I have a genuine HSV knock sensor patch harness. Engine has a knock sensor. Exhaust will be a twin system with twin cats, and air for the original airbox will come from in front of the radiator. I have a VS auto HSV Memcal (BSAK). What I was going to do was change out the Eprom for a socket and 29C256 EEprom (as described elsewhere on this site). Intended method was to use the Tunerpro software and Prom writer to write a BBMP program on to the EEprom to start with. Any problems so far??

Step 3. What I wanted to do next was emulate what Holden did with the VP dual fuel V6, and have the program setup for dual spark maps, plus start on petrol and switch to LPG etc. Can this all be done on a 256k Prom or do I need a 512k?

Step 4. Next step is to get TunerproRT working. I do have an 082 ECU (ex VR V6 manual) at home so I can use higher speed serial comms. Is the only reason I can't use it straight away with the BBMP program the BCM function? Can I turn this off using Tunerpro when I write the BBMP program onto the modified Memcal? The VP harness that came with the engine has a different ALDL connector to the VN style harness, but I assume it's still OK to use. I am assuming all I need to do to monitor the ECU whilst it's in the car is to buy a Moates ALDU1 (ALDL to USB converter) and a CABL1 cable and use in conjunction with a notebook and TunerproRT software? Is it that easy?

Questions:

Where can I download the original Holden BBMP code (or others for that matter)?
I have access to a USB LEAPER 3D Prom programmer. I assume this is OK for programming the 29C256 EEproms and compatable with the Tunerpro software?

Byron

[greenfoam]

Hi Byron, everything you say is well researched and yes you can do a straight burn of the 180kw chips and run them if you have the knock sensor in.

For your step 3 what you want to do is use the factory VP LPG V6 memcal BBMM and convert it to V8 and HSV or custom maps, a couple of pins on the ECU will then turn the fuel off. That will need a little bit of time in a hex editor to search out the stuff to change on that memcal but I could do it, you could do with a bit of research and looking around.

What pins turns off the fuel? I can't remember but it is mentioned on the internet somewhere. Get the right cable for the aldl plug and computer you have in the car and yep tunerpro, and an eprom emulator and burner if you want to update it in real time and it all should be sweet.

You can get the HSV ATJN memcal from the file section on moates site, it will be about right for your engine as a mild base tune

[yel327]

Thanks for that. I'm an Electrical Engineer, so none of it phases me to much. I'm more experienced in power and control than electronics though, so that is why I wasn't 100% sure on some of the detail.
On the LPG front, I'll just buy the VP LPG supplement which should detail how it all works. As far as I can see I'll need a 512k chip to run the twin programs (LPG and fuel). And tunerpro can be used to turn off the BCM function so I can use the 082 ECU?
And to real time program, from what you say I'll need to buy Craig Moates's "APU1 AutoProm Package: USB Version [Model: APU1]" at $325 US to get full emulation, burning, RT live licence etc. Basically the same basic function as a Kalmaker setup?
Lastly, is there anywhere else I can actually download a BBMP program, rather than the SV89 (ATJN)?

[greenfoam]

If you want to run two normal non lpg programs stacked onto one eprom and swap them over with a switch and also have your lpg change over with another switch to turn the injectors off like a normal aftermarket setup then you need a 256k eprom (each program is 128k in the VN/P) I don't know any place to get the BBMP but the ATJN will be very similar, all the clubsport type tunes are about the same, none of them are especially go fast but will give a little bit more poke than stock one in the end you wont want to use any of them so it wont matter long term

Using another program the guy from tunerpro makes (that watches a file and uploads it when it changes), you can use any of these eprom emulators

- Moates Ostrich (USB and Bluetooth)
- Moates AutoProm (USB, Serial, and Bluetooth)
- Moates Roadrunner (USB and Bluetooth)
- Moates Cheetah
- Xtronics Romulator I (Serial)
- Xtronics Romulator II (Serial)

And then you can just burn your updated tune to a eprom or eeprom with a $60AU willem programer, that's the cheapest way out of this problem and if you really want to do you real time tuning you are going to need the faster 082 computer from a VR manual or VS V8 manual or buy one from the states and yep you can turn the BCM off so you can run the VR/S programs (they are 256k each)

[hakhawk]

ok, if you go a vn/vp memcal file you will only need a 256 for 2 files to switch between, but if you're gonna do live tuning, etc. use the vr files, which you will need a 512k eprom as the vr is 256k per program.

you can use the moates ostrich for eprom emulation, about half the price of the autoprom. and then just get a cable for the vr ecu for datalogging and any suitable prom burner to write the final setup to a eprom.

[yel327]

Thanks for that. Anwered all of my questions except sort of answered one of them. The intention is to run the 082 ECU I already have instead of the 808, but run two VN/VP programs (BBMP or ATJN) with different spark maps and obviously the BCM function turned off - (actually if I run a VN/VP Memcal in an 092 do I actually have to turn off the BCM?). Obviously one will have the pump and injectors turned off too. Both will fit on a 256k chip - excellent!
The Ostrich sounds good too - and cheaper. As I stated before I have access to a Leaper USB Prom writer so hopefully it will work with Tunerpro. Also have access to a large UV eraser, so even considering erasing the standard VS 256k Memcal Eprom in situ, and programming it in place.

[hakhawk]

im pretty sure using a vn/vp file on a vr ecu wont output to the vr ecu aldl. could be wrong, but im sure thats how it works.

id consider getting eeproms, so the burner will erase them for you, much easier than a uv eraser.

get the ostrich, and that will work with tuner pro RT, will allow you to change settings on the go.

then save the final setup in tunerpro as a bin file, the load that bin file with whatever software the burner uses to the eeprom.

[greenfoam]

Thanks for that. Anwered all of my questions except sort of answered one of them. The intention is to run the 082 ECU I already have instead of the 808, but run two VN/VP programs (BBMP or ATJN) with different spark maps and obviously the BCM function turned off - (actually if I run a VN/VP Memcal in an 092 do I actually have to turn off the BCM?).

No, there's no anti theft in those but like hakhawk said you need to run the VR program to get aldl output on the 082 ECU

Obviously one will have the pump and injectors turned off too. Both will fit on a 256k chip - excellent!

I don't know how you will turn the pump and injectors off in the stock tune, maybe the injectors but the pump, dunno, doubt it

[hakhawk]

pump switch off is easy, when you setup the switch to swap tunes, use a switch with 2 seperate sets of contacts to turn off power to the pump relay. easy done.

vr files will require you to turn off the anti theft, but im sure greeny can help with that.

[yel327]

Bugger on the 082 with VP program! How different is the VR manual to the late VP manual program? I thought the actual engines were identical, with the major changes in the VR being the electronic auto and BCM. If the VR manual program will run the engine OK I'll use it as a base, modify the code for LPG and use a twin program on a 512k chip. The VR manual HSV program (BFPM) appears to have a memory offset on the 256k chip, so hopefully it will only be a 128k program and easy to compare with the VP dual fuel program for differences.
On the LPG front, I thought the VP dual fuel setup (BBMM) had the injector pulses and fuel pump both turning off when LPG was selected - via an ECU pin if I remember correctly. I also thought that when the engine was cold it started on petrol and auto switched to LPG at some time later - might be dreaming though!

[Bilbs]

does anyone here have a copy of the BFPM bin they can email me, or a link to download it?

[ptal78]

I can see one problem with your idea. I have just done my conversion with a VR PCM and Autotrans and have not found a aldl setup that will talk over 8192 baud. I have the tunerpro software with a moates autoprom emulator and it is meant to do this but I can't find the ads file required.
I tried the emulator in my VP commodore and the aldl worked good but it was slow and disjointed so I went for the VR setup in my HZ conversion and modified the wiring loom to suit (There are many differences between the VP & VR wiring loom - at least there were for the auto pcm). I also bought a VR auto transmission for the electronic gear changes.
Has anyone got the aldl to work on VR because I really want to know this.

There is a really handy switch on the moates site for switching between programs called the GP3 Switcher Adapter with ZIF and Chip and you can also get an external switch that you can mount on your dash called the EX remote switch.
This plugs straight into the holden ECM/PCM and the original memcal with the knock filter that is mounted on it (Must be used if you use a knock sensor). This unit bypasses the original prom in the memcal but retains all of the limp home and block learn functions (I think).

[delcowizzid]

one ads file attached and you need the 2 transistor aldl cable and need to make sure the aldl output pin on the aldl plug is rewired to the correct ecu pin as its different than where the vn pin goes

[ptal78]

Thanks delcowizzid,

I've got the aldl connecting now but the values are not correct for some reason. For example, the TPS is stuck on a value and does not move, same with the rpm. I checked error codes and it has 31-Theft deterrent along with 12. Are my problems because I have not hooked up a remote key module? Is there a way of bypassing the theft deterrent signal? I don't really need it and would prefer an aftermarket system anyway. Do I need the original Remote-Key Module from the car I got the pcm from?

Thanks

[delcowizzid]

could be that definition ive never used it go get efilive v4 it free to trial has most commis in there defined allready.

[delcowizzid]

try this i think i fixed it no guarentees ive been up for god knows how long didnt make it to be last night about to go now before i drop dead thought ide finish this first has most things now and in the right places

[delcowizzid]

you got it all running yet mate