VS Ecotec engine into vp?

[[JUDGE]]

Hey guys i was jst wondering, because the vp has the same engine as the vr the vp is faster due to weight vs power ratio, but the ecotec has more power. basically does the vs ecotec engine fit straight into the vp engine bay, i reckon a vp with a ecotec engine would go hard as, since it is lighter then the newer makes, but it would have the same power?

[prince_dj666]

its an arguable debate.. they same eco would be faster cos of high power output and they are more revvy but the pre eco's seem more torquer than the vs. the eco's have weaker pistons too. id only get a brand new eco from a crate if i was gonna do that.. i have driven a few eco's from vs-vy and they seem gutless.

[sircruisealotVS]

ok, for sufer dude's question...it is a pain in the ass on the computer side of things when it comes to putting a ecotec into a vp which has a turbo-hydromatic transmission (auto this is) because the ecotec came with an electronic trans (4L60E)...and even if you did get the whole ecotec engine/trans combo you would still have dramas with running the vp's bcm (it wont want to work with the vs's computer, which you need to also swap over into the vp)....im not saying its not do-able, just a bit of mucking around.
prince_dj666...the ecotec has more kw's AND more torque than a buick v6(vn-vr) it may seem like the earlier buicks are "torquier" (is that even a word,lol) than an ecotec but it isnt the case, it most likely feels like it has more torque because of the rough transmission used with the buick versus the smoother 4L60E used with the eco.

[greenfoam]

If? the engine bolts straight onto the old auto then you can just run the engine on the old computer and loom and it's all cool. Like prince ^^ said the pistons and rods on the ecotec are much skinnier and weaker than the earlier motor but it does have way better heads. I think the wise this to do if you had no motor and wanted one or the other would be run the ecotec if you were running NA and the earlier one for boost

[sircruisealotVS]

i didnt realise the vp computer would work with a maf greenfoam...or are you thinking along the lines of using a map setup for the eco? not trying to dispute you (you know sh*tloads more about this stuff than i do, lol) ...im just curious.

[greenfoam]

Yeah just throw the maf in the tip, it's been done heaps of times! lots of VS guys installed VN/R computers in their cars before kalmaker could tune the ecotecs

[immortality]

How does that work, the buick V6 has group fire injection where as the ecotec is sequencial fuel injection and therfore would have different wiring looms. i do believe that someone has made some sort of module so you can run the ecotec engine/ecu without the security module of the later model cars but i don't know if this will also allow you to run the early hydro auto. i would go for the MAFless tune however if possible????

[vt1538]

You will need to modify the old VN loom to fit the ecotec engine. The coolant temp & mat sensor will need to be swapped over also. There is a bit of messing around but the speedway guys in W.A. have been doing it with some good results. I am doing one at the moment & will post some pics after I have got it all sorted.

[Mr_Slim]

everytime one of the ecotec into VN/VP thread starts, the key point is how the change the computer because the VS uses an electronic gearbox vs. the old-school hard shifting VN/VP.

What about us manual drivers? the 8-bolt flywheel in the VP should be the same as the VS yes? I'd still have to change the memcal, i think, but what else?

[sircruisealotVS]

well no offense mr_slim...but there's f*ck all manuals about (in v6's), so its usually a safe bet to assume its an auto thats being talked about.

[immortality]

You will need to modify the old VN loom to fit the ecotec engine. The coolant temp & mat sensor will need to be swapped over also. There is a bit of messing around but the speedway guys in W.A. have been doing it with some good results. I am doing one at the moment & will post some pics after I have got it all sorted.

So basically your running the ecotec in group injection mode then, i guess it doesn't matter as the sequencial injection is more of an economy thing really isn't it

[greenfoam]

Most people that have the vr computer in the vs seem to get better ecconomy! in batch/group fire than they could before

[vt1538]

So basically your running the ecotec in group injection mode then, i guess it doesn't matter as the sequencial injection is more of an economy thing really isn't it

I dont know about the economy side. We only do it as the class wont allow the later model ECU. They believe that it will restrict the horsepower to the equivalent of an EA falcon to bring parity to the class.
I am sure that a good tuner can bring both the economy & the power back if you find it lacking.

[greenfoam]

So in your racing you have to run the stock VR memcal?

[immortality]

i'm sure that tuning the ecu with the MAP sensor gives better results than the VS MAF setup anyway, theirs a reason all the LS1, LS2 guys are doing it

[vt1538]

So in your racing you have to run the stock VR memcal?

No. We can only run up to the VP memcal.

[immortality]

No. We can only run up to the VP memcal.

do you do any "re-tuning" at all or just bolt it in and go etc, waht sorta power/torque you getting from these setups etc i'm considering putting the VN series V6 into a VK cause i didn't want the troublethat the ecotec ECU cuases with needing the car security module etc but if i can run it with the earlier ECU it might be worth the hassle

[vt1538]

The class doesnt allow for any recalibrating of the ECM. As for the actual power figures I will be getting in touch with a guy in WA again shortly that will have some. I will post them up when they are made available to me.

[greenfoam]

No. We can only run up to the VP memcal.

Nice, sounds like there is an advantage to be had by finding the most agressive stock tune , the HSV tunes not allowed I suppose?. Still some of the early VN ones would be your friend

[vt1538]

Nice, sounds like there is an advantage to be had by finding the most agressive stock tune , the HSV tunes not allowed I suppose?. Still some of the early VN ones would be your friend

Originally they said that I could use the ASBY memcal from the SV3800 but now they have canned that. I am on the lookout now for the BABR 3575 or BAAM0265 which they are getting good results from in WA.
Which of the early VN memcals are you talking about? It would be good to compare them on a dyno to the later ones I just mentioned.

[Mr_Slim]

well no offense mr_slim...but there's f*ck all manuals about (in v6's), so its usually a safe bet to assume its an auto thats being talked about.

i guess i'm just special then

[cracker]

i looked in to this some time ago, it could work use vn computer and have it repogramed, set up a kick down cable for the auto trans, eningne bolts in, problay need a little bit of custom ehxuats work though its do able

[greenfoam]

Originally they said that I could use the ASBY memcal from the SV3800 but now they have canned that. I am on the lookout now for the BABR 3575 or BAAM0265 which they are getting good results from in WA.
Which of the early VN memcals are you talking about? It would be good to compare them on a dyno to the later ones I just mentioned.

Give me a couple of hours and I'll make a post comparing them all

[greenfoam]

Ok I had a look at them all, no real need to make a new thread about it.
The common VN memcal ATFY, is probably the best for you or possibly ATBH, if you wanted a slightly little bit more fuel but you sacrafice some spark advance over ATFY in the mid/high range, both of those should smoke any other the VP memcals you mentioned as they both run 4 degrees more spark than any of the detuned VP programs almost throughout the rev range and ATFY totals at 30 degrees.

My VN came with ATFY and its very close to the the SV3800 tune in terms of go fastness

[vt1538]

Ok I had a look at them all, no real need to make a new thread about it.
The common VN memcal ATFY, is probably the best for you or possibly ATBH, if you wanted a slightly little bit more fuel but you sacrafice some spark advance over ATFY in the mid/high range, both of those should smoke any other the VP memcals you mentioned as they both run 4 degrees more spark than any of the detuned VP programs almost throughout the rev range and ATFY totals at 30 degrees.

My VN came with ATFY and its very close to the the SV3800 tune in terms of go fastness

Thanks a lot for that Greenfoam. I will have a look for those memcals & see what I can come up with. Since for speedway the engine is running at the top of the rev range, do you think it is possible to rotate the interrupter rings on the balancer & use the ATBH memcal to gain the extra fuel & return some of the advance in the spark?
The engine will rarely see life under 4500 rpm so idle quality & low rpm power is no issue.