Brakes

[savage1987]

We all appreciate that VN V6 brakes are not quite up to the job when it comes to actually stopping the car . . . let alone in a hurry. Hard braking in a VN V6 is NOT fun. What options do we have to upgrade??

I know people have had VT conversions done, but is it worthwhile?

I have a feeling I've seen DBA or someone offering slotted VT front rotors. I'd be up for a set of these if I knew a bit more about the conversion . . .

How much (roughly - I have NO idea whatsoever) would the entire conversion cost?
What else (master cylinder, etc) needs replacing/changing at the same time?
What are the smallest rims you can fit the VT brakes under? (I have 14s)
Are braided brake lines worth the money, and how much money are they worth?

Any info appreciated
Cheers
Sam

[1991_Vn2nV]

The VT brakes fit under 15's I think...

Master cylinder, brake pads, rotors etc. they should all come with the conversion kit. Everything you need will come in the kit normally except for the VT master cylinder.

If you are willing to spend money on the braking system then it'd be worth going for the braided brake lines imo, but no idea what sorta cost.

Theres also the option of the VN Group A brakes which are corvette brakes, and theres 330mm and 310mm?? 6 piston? brakes floating around that fit using the VT hub adapter as well. But they are like $1500 and around a grand for the VN Group A setup.. You can basically do it yourself and its not massive work so even paying a mechanic wont add alot more to the overall price...

Im waiting til my rotors need changing then going for the brake upgrade, to the Group A spec if I can get my hands on them. IMO its definitely worth it, as the VN V6 brakes are worthless... They are spongey as hell and under hard braking they lock up pretty easy as well. You have to really hit the brakes to make them work hard and its not a big leap further before they do lock up. Its one of the biggest downfalls of the VN I reckon.

[VN Commy]

I've got Ferodo performance pads in mine (around $400 a set), high boiling point fluid and DBA slotted rotors. Even with the standard master cyldiner and calipers it feels really solid slamming them on from 180. I admit they're not that responsive but they can pull me up pretty quick, just gotta push a little bit harder than I would in a japanese car. With good 225/50/16 tyres it takes a fair bit to lock them up. It just depends how much money you want to spend. It would be nice to have a VT or HSV conversion but thats just way out of my budjet at the moment. Don't the VL turbos have big calipers aswell? That might be a bit cheaper if you can get your hands on some.

[savage1987]

VT brakes certainly do fit under 15s - my parents have a VT with 15" alloys

But I like my 14s! *cry*

[1991_Vn2nV]

VT brakes certainly do fit under 15s - my parents have a VT with 15" alloys

But I like my 14s! *cry*

lol why do you like your 14's? 14's are horrible, the size of the tyres as well...massive profile!

[savage1987]

They look old school . . . suit the car . . . they've been on there since my dad owned the car, and I dunno I just like them. I'll see if I can post a pic . . .

The main reason I like them is that they're different. I'd gladly take a set of 18s if they came for the right price, but at the moment I have a lot of things to repair first . . . so the budget's a little stretched. And no, I WON'T put a set of stockys on there. They're against my religion

Regarding the pic: feedback welcome - or constructive criticism - no "looks sh!t" comments please, unless you can list a couple of reasons . . .

Cheers guys
Sam

Oh and I still don't know how much I'm looking at for a VT-spec upgrade, maybe someone who's done it already can help here . . .

[markovr]

Theres a lot of stuff about it on this site ...the vt upgrade that is.
Personally I went for the vt 290 mm discs slotted dba ones and qfm pads but there are a lot of different compounds in pads out there.I have the vt booster and master to give the pedal some firmness and less travel.I reckon the braided lines would be the go if I could make the cost cover the effectiveness. If you have the money the extra 330mm discs and adapters would be better but the vt 290mm should be enough.

[savage1987]

I don't need to go as big as 330mm . . . VT 290 slotted will do me just fine.

Only thing my folks suggested (one of their cars is a VT) is that the brakes squeal alot . . . do the slotted rotors prevent this to any extent? (markovr you can help me here)

And yeah I briefly searched the forums before posting here, but I couldn't find any prices listed anywhere . . .

Cheers for the info guys
Sam

[greenfoam]

Hey, you all forgot the sensible option VN-VP V8/ V6 FE2 brakes are WAAAAY better than the stock ones, cheap as. Everyone should have a set

[savage1987]

hmm good point - I take it you have a set, greenfoam . . . what are they like? Are there any complications with them, do they have a habit of squealing alot, and what kind of prices are we looking at?

Also, how does the rotor size compare with VT, and/or with standard V6? (I checked out redbook.com.au but they don't have rotor sizes listed . . .)

[Full Spectrum]

I have been looking into brakes myself as my fronts are toast.
270mm slotted DBA with some type of pad i forgot for $180? front.

[immortality]

go with the hopper stoppers upgrade, it's based on the VT brakes, 330mm, twinspot calipers, DBA rotors etc. complete package from $1200. i beleive they have cheaper 300mm options from around the $740 mark and you can get all sorts of otherstuff like braided lines etc too. i wouldn't bother with the V8 VN/VP setup. i tried it on my VH V8 andi can still cook them in a matter of minutes. they are better then the stock ones but not a huge updrade. the squeeling has a lot to do with brake pad material, since the manufactures have gone away from aspestos based pads

checkout this site

www.hoppers.com.au

you should definitly upgrade your master cylinder to the 1" model(stock is 15/16" i believe) you should be able to get from repco as the V8 model had the 1" master cylinder and it's a bolt on job, no mods needed. the braided lines will give a firmer pedal feel

[markovr]

The type of disc wont stop or start the discs squeal.Its probably the pads that do this and their reaction of the material in them to the disc they are running against.I thought all ea falcons had this as standard equipment but the cars so bad its the least of their worries.Steel pads were notorious for this in the past but I think they are on top of it now.
Is fe2 pads the same as police pads?...cause Ive tried them and they dust so bad.I use qfm but thats my opinion and they dont squeal and dust much but everyone has their personal preferences....most pads these days wear the disc in time but thats over a three or four years when the pads need replacing that you need to machine them and that only amounts to an extra 30 or 40 bucks.
Another thing that might tend to sway you towards a vt/x disc........ thickness not to mention pad size ...vn/p/r/s 22mm if they havent been machined ....vts 28mm...a fair bit more steel.

[AirStrike]

Im slowly piecing together the brake upgrade for the SS.
I have:
*VT master cylinder
*VS resivour
*R33 GTS-t 4 piston calipers
*EBC red stuff pads
I then need:
*VT booster (mark the VT master doesnt mate up to the VZ booster)
*VT HSV 330mm rotors
*Caliper brakets (just need to order off tony)
*Adaptor hubs (just need to order off tony)
*Braided lines (just need to order off tony).
So should be good when done.

I have the VT setup with slotted rotors and braided lines on my VR and it brakes quite well for a setup that was under $300, but make sure you have a 1" master at a very minimum.

AirStrike

[pandaman]

hmm good point - I take it you have a set, greenfoam . . . what are they like? Are there any complications with them, do they have a habit of squealing alot, and what kind of prices are we looking at?

Also, how does the rotor size compare with VT, and/or with standard V6? (I checked out redbook.com.au but they don't have rotor sizes listed . . .)

Hmm, from memory the front VN V8 brakes are 289mm*28mm discs, they run single piston calipers with cooling fins. The VT packages like the ones on Ebay are 296mm*28mm discs with twin piston calipers. I'm seriously considering the VT package for some point in the future, the wags pulls up ok, but doesn't throw me into the seatbelt as hard as I'd like. I'll check those disc sizes when I get home. (Uni library has amateur archaeological reports from 1947 but not commodore manuals from the 90's, how's that for some f'd up priorities?)

[immortality]

just bought a G-tech pro so i'lldo some tests on the braking times/distances with it, maybe i'll do it 10 times etc to allow for driver error etc, then i might fit the VN V8 brakes i have with a 1" master cylinder and do it all over again and see if it makes any difference i suspect that it will only pull the car up marginally quicker if at all than standard but it'll probably be more resistant to fade over a number of stops. Street Machine mag did this test some time ago on a(dear i say) ford fitted with there 300mm upgrade, it made a difference in the stopping distance but really made a big difference in the back to back stops in terms of fade and brake pedal feel etc

[savage1987]

(Uni library has amateur archaeological reports from 1947 but not commodore manuals from the 90's, how's that for some f'd up priorities?)

Thanks for the info guys.

I'm prone to the odd bit of 'spirited' driving, so brake fade is a massive issue for me with my stock setup . . . Unfortunately it seems like I will have to upgrade to 15" rims at least . . . I'll start looking around.

At the moment I think I'll go with DBA's slotted VT front rotors, standard VT rear rotors, VT calipers all round, and a 1" master cylinder from the VN V8.

Anything I've forgotten? I don't really understand the components of the braking system. . . so feel free to tell me anything else I might need - for example, how does reservoir size affect the system, and will I need to upgrade it?

Thanks again guys, keep it coming!
Sam

[pandaman]

Thanks for the info guys.

I'm prone to the odd bit of 'spirited' driving, so brake fade is a massive issue for me with my stock setup . . . Unfortunately it seems like I will have to upgrade to 15" rims at least . . . I'll start looking around.

At the moment I think I'll go with DBA's slotted VT front rotors, standard VT rear rotors, VT calipers all round, and a 1" master cylinder from the VN V8.

Anything I've forgotten? I don't really understand the components of the braking system. . . so feel free to tell me anything else I might need - for example, how does reservoir size affect the system, and will I need to upgrade it?

Thanks again guys, keep it coming!
Sam

Some people do reccomend the use of a VT style "quickfill" reservoir but I think it requires a fair bit of modification for not much benefit. Another idea is good quality braided brake lines, expensive but most likely worth it.

[savage1987]

OK. The reservoir is off the list in order to save costs . . . my back rotors are scored to sh!t and I want to get this upgrade going as soon as I can . . .

Is there any way I can do this in stages, or should I just save up and do the whole lot in one go?

[SlowVac]

VT brakes can be used on the 1' master cylinder which can fit the standard booster on the car. The double diaphram booster would be used if the car has a cam (no vaccum on idle). I've had the VT conversion for 4years and it better then the standard brakes.
If you do not have the money get the V8 brakes which are fitted on the car but ideally you would need the 1' master cylinder.
For discs I would rather use the slotted disc then the x-drilled slot version as it can crack if the car would be on the track. At the moment I've just fitted DBA x-drill slot (bought them cheap years ago) and EBC greenstuff all round and so far it has not let me down also not as dusty as bendix ultimate.

Ideally go in a car with the VT brake conversion & V8 brake then make a decision from there...

[savage1987]

Will I need to change/renew the brake booster with the upgrade?

[immortality]

don't worry about upgrading the rears as the fronts do most of the work, just fit new disc's and good pads. get the 1" master cylinder from the VN V8 and covert the front to the VT 300mm disc's wiht twinspot callipers as per the Hopperstoppers conversion. to do this conversion you have to fit special hubs that come in the hopperstoppers kit, get the kit and upgrade to the braided lines, i think it's only another $70

[savage1987]

I keep hearing about these hub adapters . . . this tells me my effective axle length will increase, making the car track wider at the front, or am I mistaken? What's the deal with them, and how much are they worth?

[pandaman]

I keep hearing about these hub adapters . . . this tells me my effective axle length will increase, making the car track wider at the front, or am I mistaken? What's the deal with them, and how much are they worth?

Not hub adapters, adaptor hubs. They replace your standard ones, as VT discs don't fit onto VN hubs.

[savage1987]

Aha! It all makes sense now! Thanks again, pandaman! Uh . . . Does that mean my rims also won't fit?? (Apart from the fact that they're 14s and VT brakes don't fit under them . . .)