The next step... ENGINE MODIFICATION!!!!

[PaRaDoX]

hey guys, as the visual stage of my car modification closes near to where i want it, now its time to play with the engine

so far ive really just been upgrading suspension/handling, 8" wide rims, stiffer springs and shocks, nolathane bushes with link upgrades, ajustable everything ect...

now its time to make her put down a bit more power
im planning on a 3.9 ratio minispool, to help put it down a bit better

now ive got a FEW options and im not %100 on any of them

1) throw a sc14 on her and run some mild boost meanwhile get a intercooler setup going, then rebuild another engine, new rockers, new cam, port heads, forged pistons, stronger conrods, new cam shaft and convert to manual maybe after that turbo it with a FIT manifold (talking in the next 2-3 years)

2) save up LOTS of money and get a LS1, then work that off its tits and turbo it

the advatage about the v6 is i dont have the car off the road for long when i put the engine in (changing kframe, brakes, suspension, wiring loom, computer ect)

the ls1 would go harder but cost more time and money, and time is money as the majourity of the labour would be done by me

the v6 turbo's can make some nice power...
id be stoked to break 200rwkw anything over that would be awesome....
budget of around 10k, dont want to spend much more than that...

im leaning towards the v6 turbo setup

FIT manifold - $1450
Turbo $400-500
BOV $100-200
boost gauge - $60
oil lines -$50ish
intercooler - $300ish?~ some good deals out there
wastegate?? -$$?
intercooler piping - $300ish (use exhust piping like luke)

rebuild with parts and machining $4000ish~

soo round $7000 for a decant 250rwkw??? +/-
and a brank spanker of a engine

ive pretty much studdied v6 vengence's setup and they'res alot of things he could of done beter, and he wasted alot of money on useless things and doubbles

i assume id need a rebuilt tranny for the ammount of power ill be laying down,
what needs to be upgraded? torque converter?? gears? tailshaft? ect
no idea if i wanna stay auto or go manual, will figure it out later

anyway any opinions welcome, aslong as i can take what you say and use it!

[anton1o]

Id go an LS1, heaps newer wont require asmuch $ to get the power out of it... You can get an LS1 for about $4000, so you'd really hit the budget adding up all the other bits and pieces.

[PaRaDoX]

ouch, remember with a ls1 ALOT of things have to be changed, isnt a engineers cert required aswell???

[SweetWagon]

I'd say turbo 6 as theres only a couple of em around, and after going for test rides in a few performance turbo 6's (xr6 turbo, RB30ET) the output is pretty impressive, definately give any worked 8 a run for its money.

My idea as im only on my P's and will be for 3 years (NSW) with the restrictions, is to purchase a vn wreck with good motor, take the motor out and rebuild it for a turbo and fit it all back in the wreck + get custom piping work done etc. Then wait till of my P's and drop the setup in my good car. That way i got a couple of years to build it in spare time and a weekend to drop it in.
$10G would be a good estimate for the total cost I would think too

[cracker]

10g's..... for everything... i think not.
engines are expensive even a mild na will cost you at least 2000-3000g's
i mean mild to cam, stock ish heads acl race pistons etc. it adds up fast.
the auto would not last. at all.
things cost alot more once you starting doing it

[anton1o]

Thats why i advised LS1, the amount of piss farting around is halfed str8 off the bat..

All you need to do is get a halfcut of the thing.. Pfft if you work the 6 ok wont need to get no engineer's or go around to places... but youll be spending money on an engine.. Get an engine thats alredy putting out 200rwkw... If you can do alot of the work yourself altho it will be a big task to LS1 a VN, but its been done many times before..
Youll be different/powerful/ and have an engine thats not even 5yrs old

LS1 will shoot you down the 1/4 for the same price if not less.. Whilst you still have an open field to modifications!

[anton1o]

Thats why i advised LS1, the amount of piss farting around is halfed str8 off the bat..

All you need to do is get a halfcut of the thing.. Pfft if you work the 6 ok wont need to get no engineer's or go around to places... but youll be spending money on an engine.. Get an engine thats alredy putting out 200rwkw... If you can do alot of the work yourself altho it will be a big task to LS1 a VN, but its been done many times before..
Youll be different/powerful/ and have an engine thats not even 5yrs old

LS1 will shoot you down the 1/4 for the same price if not less.. Whilst you still have an open field to modifications!

A good auto, will cost you $2000

SHIT I QUOTED MYSELF!

[sircruisealotVS]

ok, first....stop, take a breath and think.
what are you aiming to do/end up with at the end of all this? thats what you really need to consider first and foremost.
while it might sound like a sweet idea to do this and that, with a rebuilt so and so,etc.etc.. you should put alot of thought into a few things:
what are you going to use this car for? a daily driver, weekend cruiser, pure track weapon...a bit of all the above?
how much power and torque do you really need for what your going to be using it for?
how will certain mods affect its drivability and cost of running and maintenance?
and set some sort of limit/ budget and keep to it, dont let it get out of hand on you as its easy to do. i dont wanna curb your enthousiasm or anything and im not trying to be a prick, its just alot of money and you should allocate it wisely before you make any hasty decisions.

[Full Spectrum]

What's wrong with Supercharging? 230kw + from a good set-up.
Grab a change over engine herd they are very cheap. Ad ComeRacing Cam Pistons have the heads done. Ad Supercharger headers exhaust might come under $6000-$7000??.

[defa]

if you are going to turbo the v6 and are going the spend all that mone, spend another 1000 and buy a BB turbo. something like off the xr6's. that is only my opinion though. i have bought all of what i need and only spent $500 on a turbo and i am sure that will be the first thing to let me down.. but i could be wrong

[PaRaDoX]

hrmmm well a LS1 would be nice but to be honost, im not looking for a 10 second car, im looking for a cruizer with a bit of power where its needed, that ATLEAST runs 13s, turbo would be nice because unless your really foot to the floor it dosnt spool up, and also with a boost controller could run 3 pound for daily driving then when i want to give it a bit of a flogging boost it,

however a turbo setup wont come easily, so for now i think i might settle for a SC14 setup, like lukes, that will give me a bit more power,

vn6pwr your better off going down to a self serve wreckers, buying a engine for $50 putting it on a engine stand and working on that, much much much cheaper

BB turbo = ball bearing turbo???
im not %100 on what parts ill use as of yet,

im just sick of it being soo slow

[AirStrike]

What's wrong with Supercharging? 230kw + from a good set-up.
Grab a change over engine herd they are very cheap. Ad ComeRacing Cam Pistons have the heads done. Ad Supercharger headers exhaust might come under $6000-$7000??.

230kw from a SC14................
Just put a 5.0lt in. Mine made 143.5rwkw with minimal mods and needing a service. They can be had cheap and dont need to change alot to fit it in.
AirStrike

[PaRaDoX]

yeah i was thinking more of the 5.0L engines rather than the 5.7's
how much did you pay for your engine airstrike?

and what do they usually go for?

what did you need to change?
will the v8 bolt up to the Turbo 700??

i assume ill need to change these things
kframe (or is there a adaption for the engine mounts)
wiring loom
fuel pump (later on)
radiator fan (to a slimline one)
upgrade brakes? thinking of slotted rotors

still investigating at the moment

[greenfoam]

You have to set a goal of how fast you want the car to go and how legal you want it to be. Lets start with 13's

You can run a high 13 with a fully worked over NA V6 (somewhat epa happy). You will run low to mid 13's or maybe faster with the SC14 and a intercooler(epa unhappy). You can run mid 13's with a well setup 304 with a cam and exhaust(epa happy kinda (they wont know). You can run 13's with a very mild RB30ET (epa happy)

12's You can run 12's with a 304 with more compression and maybe a new manifold (almost epa happy). You can run 12's with a very good SC14 setup on the V6 (epa unhappy). You can run 12's easily with a turbo on the V6 (epa unhappy). You can run 12's with a stock LS1 (100% legal with cheap engineers certificate (epa very happy). You can run 12's with a RB30ET (epa kinda happy).

11's. You can Run 11's with a tuned and exhausted ls1 in a VN(epa wont know). You can run 11's with a worked 355 Holden stroker (bit lumpy for total epa happyness maybe:P ). You can run 11's with a good turbo setup on the V6(epa unhappy), you can run 11's with a RB30ET (epa probably unhappy)

That's about it for choices, you should be able to do any of those setups for about 10 grand if you do it all yourself. The 13 second 304 and SC 14 V6 would be the cheapest options (about 2-3 grand for either). You can make all of those engines 100% epa happy with the 3 grand? emissions test.

There's another option by the way. You can buy a manual LS1 exeutive for not much over 10 grand now, you can buy a 12 second VL turbo for about the same price. And you most certainly can buy a very fast 5 liter or stroker Holden V8 VN/P for 10 grand

[PaRaDoX]

im not looking for a 10 second car, im looking for a cruizer with a bit of power where its needed, that ATLEAST runs 13s, turbo would be nice because unless your really foot to the floor it dosnt spool up, and also with a boost controller could run 3 pound for daily driving then when i want to give it a bit of a flogging boost it,

READ next time reaper!

wow thanks for the insight foam!!! made things ALOT CLEARER, ok what do you mean by epa unhappy? like they wont like it but they'll let it slip

ok down to 3 idea's really

304 is the 5.0L yeah?

so
1) 304 with a bit of work
2) v6 turbo intercooled
3) sc14 intercooled

what kinda fuel usage am i looking at for each setup? and what would be best for daily driving/cruizing with a bit of kick when i need it?

i suppose the turbo can be boosted when ever, the sc14 can be turned off (quite a restirction sucking air through the turbine when its off)

or the 304 would be a fuel guzzler always?

mmmmm

the main thing is wanna get start on this start of next year, now the 304 would take a while to impliment, where as the sc14 would be the easiest and the turbo in the middle....

im kinda leaning towards the sc14 setup as its only 5 cubic inches smaller than the m90 and dosnt require a adaptor plate and vp_lukes setup looks promising!!!!

[SweetWagon]

Does a ls1 bolt up to a 5.0L k-frame or is it a custom job

[greenfoam]

The K frame needs to be modified for the LS1, but there are kits to do it

[defa]

BB turbo = ball bearing turbo???
im not %100 on what parts ill use as of yet

yeah that is right

[Emackulation]

5.0L sounds nice.

[xcop5l]

i might be abil to get you a turbo set up of a vp v6 its missing the turbo but comes with intercooler exaust & manifolds and all pipes the bloke had his pod hanging out the bottom and went threw a puddle blew the engine and seized the turbo.
i think he was runing about 7-10 pounds of boost
ill see if he still has it

[Full Spectrum]

230kw from a SC14................
Just put a 5.0lt in. Mine made 143.5rwkw with minimal mods and needing a service. They can be had cheap and dont need to change alot to fit it in.
AirStrike

That would be sweet and sound hot to.. But i get a frill out of a fast V6 more then a fast V8 it's like David and Goliath the underdog.

[VNPOWER]

waste of money... If you want to go quick for **** all money you're better off getting a VL turbo and doing some mods to that.

Doing up a Vn is just a complete waste of money in my opinion, because at the end of the day when you go to sell it, you will get nothing for it. unless you got a decent flow of cash coming in i wouldnt bother.

Save up for a newer better car that will last.

cheers

[PaRaDoX]

waste of money... If you want to go quick for **** all money you're better off getting a VL turbo and doing some mods to that.

Doing up a Vn is just a complete waste of money in my opinion, because at the end of the day when you go to sell it, you will get nothing for it. unless you got a decent flow of cash coming in i wouldnt bother.

Save up for a newer better car that will last.

cheers

*sigh* i didnt get a VN because money was a issue, if i wanted a new car i would have brought a newer car??? i had $8000 when i got my vn.........
i had the chance to get a VS, i nearly brought it but i wanted a vn
i like the syling of the vn and i WOULDNT modify a car just to sell it.... im keeping this car for ever or untill its written off

better newer car???? not all newer cars are better in my opinion i like the vn, at the end of the day i wouldnt get anything newer to do up becuase to be perfectly honost, the newer cars HAVE NOTHING TO DO TO THEM, they come with a bodykit, rims everything you'd want, so any upgrade you make looks pissy


id have to agree a v8 would be nice, id love to have a LS1 in this car, and break 300 @ the fly with just a retune
but my pockets arnt that deep,

how much would that turbo setup cost?? id be intrested in the manifold/downpipe, has it got a external wastegate piping?
can u find out prices on the manifold and downpipe nothing else first???

im seriously considering a sc14 setup, sure its limited but i like the idea the supercharger not actually being bolted to the inlet manifold
then i can decide what i want to do when i have more cash flow, that then gives me time to do the intercooler setup because this car WILL be boosted just depends if its a 3800 or 5700 or even 5000

sc14 setup should cost me under $1000 with me doing the labour, wont touch the engine interals, still not %100 i know what i want to do with the engine, need more time to decide what i want, but for the meantime i need more power at the moment im probbly laying down 100-105rwkw with advanced spark, with the new rims dont get ANY wheelspin so i get a good take off, providing the surface is good

ive also gotta think about the future, im currently studying as a student, got 1 year left then i get kicked outta home, but luckily the entry rate for my industry is GOOD and only gets better with time so after next year ill be out on my ass with too many bills to worry about... this is why im living my dream now with my car i worked my ass off for 3 years before i turned 18 to get her and get her going good, i dont earn much at the moment, although im working on a contract at the end of the year for 3 months... need to start saving for moving out really aswell so the most power with the less cash....

hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[VNPOWER]

what ever floats your boat bro

[xcop5l]

the newer cars HAVE NOTHING TO DO TO THEM, they come with a bodykit, rims everything you'd want, so any upgrade you make looks pissy

thats why i got the hz and the possibilitys and mods are almost endless