blown headgasket...

[PaRaDoX]

hey

i drained my oil today (2 weeks after a change)
its brown, drained coolant, its also brown...

car makes a "CHING CHING CHING CHING CHING" noise and smokes
like the exhust valve closing

now luckily i was gonna rip them stock headgaskets out anyway and slap in some copper ones... (getting a set priced up) gonna use some ARP head bolts aswell, anyone know how much the cost altho money isnt a real big issue

at the moment how it runs...
rough idle (ok once u build revs)
it comes onto boost nice and easily but dosnt really go that well under boost

could the heads be cracked aswell??? im not using the set of heads off my car, should i swap back to the original heads off the engine??? as i know they went fine...

i got one hell of a weekend comming up i know that.........

[Sp0tteh]

i dont understand why your still running it to boost, when obviously your still having issues, your just really asking for more trouble. (not to sound rude)

But anyway, yea cracked head could be it. Have you checked out under the rocker covers yet?

[pandaman]

I'd suggest going back to the old heads and while you've got this set off check em for cracks. To do that backyard style, rub them down with a kerosene soaked rag then dry them off with some more rag, chuck em out in the sun for a while and watch. If they've got cracks, they'll absorb the kerosene which will weep out as the heads heat up so you'll end up with lines of moisture along the cracks.

If they're ok then you know it was just the gasket, if not, then you may need to revise your setup to avoid rapid heating and cooling of the heads. I'm a bit worried about that noise and smoke, doesn't sound promising. (although if you've done a seriosuly good job of lunching a head gasket you might be getting some oil/coolant into the cylilnder) What colour smoke are we talking here and how much? The metallic ticking/"ching" noise combined with your other symptoms really just screams valvetrain damage to me but meh. May as well pull it down and have a look.

[PaRaDoX]

i dont understand why your still running it to boost, when obviously your still having issues, your just really asking for more trouble. (not to sound rude)

But anyway, yea cracked head could be it. Have you checked out under the rocker covers yet?

yes i have checked rockers, no im not running boost, its been in the garage for a week now...
idle is tune related

dont believe its headgasket as i didnt actually find any water in the oil... (water + oil dont mix, they seperate) and it wasnt milky, just brown so the synethic oil could have just cooked

the noise could be a zorst leak guys,

[Boonz]

the first oil change will always be blacker than usual when you change from mineral to synthetic....all the carbon buildup mixes in with the oil and turns it black...it wouldnt actually burn it in a space of 2 weeks

[AirStrike]

I have given up reading these threads, you have clearly proven the likes of myself and Tim correct. This is what happends when you try and do things on the cheap and have no idea.
WHY ARE YOU BOOSTING IT!!!

it comes onto boost nice and easily but dosnt really go that well under boost

If you had of taken the correct messures in the first place there would of been alot less heart ache.

[PaRaDoX]

good, maybe you'll go annoy someone else airstrike...

[pandaman]

idle is tune related

That's what I said, turned out I had electrical problems. Don't rule out anything until you're certain.

dont believe its headgasket as i didnt actually find any water in the oil... (water + oil dont mix, they seperate) and it wasnt milky, just brown so the synethic oil could have just cooked

Water and oil don't "mix" but when you combine them and agitate them they will form an emulsion. If a small amount of water gets into the oil, the resulting emulsion will be an opaque light brown, more water results in a lighter brown through to the familiar vanilla custard flavour for a real bad case. If it's just dirty/cooked oil, wtf is your coolant brown?

the noise could be a zorst leak guys,

Possible. Already been suggested in your other thread that this could be the case, but i've never heard an exhaust leak go "ching".

[VN_Luke]

Possible. Already been suggested in your other thread that this could be the case, but i've never heard an exhaust leak go "ching".

ahh, the art of internet problem diagnosis via 'worded' sounds hehe

[Blown V6 Hatch]

I have to agree with Dave on this one, i cant remember how many times you have been advised to get a proper tune done! My feelings are, that all this heartache could have been avoided by getting it properly tuned on a dyno, this has been caused by detonation no doubt about it! You can have the best set up in the world but if the tunes not right this will be the result everytime.

I realise there are a few people on this site than can make good memcals and i'm not knocking them, but when it comes to a custom set up, imo you need a proper tune done in real time on a dyno.

Anyway, do as you will, but i think if you dont get it properly tuned & set up, you will keep coming back to this same scenario!

[VN_Luke]

I don't see how a tune will cause valley gaskets to blow out, and leads to break ... (last set of issues)

I'm not so sure that this has been caused by detonation (i don't think anyone would be silly enough to hammer a car that's pinging it's brain off - which would result in some severe damage)....

Either way, I reckon there's lots of things to do before taking the car for a tune, because not even the best tuner in the world could tune the car to run grouse if it has blocked injectors, or buggered heads?

Gordon, i reckon you bite the bullet and take the heads off, inspect the gaskets, check to see if the heads are cracked or damaged in any way... check the gaskets, maybe replace with decomp-plates..

you're already getting brand spank injectors, which is good (eliminates one more thing)...

when assembling everything take particular care to make sure everything is together properly, sealed where it should be, sealant applied where it needs to be, thread locker applied and bolts torqued up, anti-seize applied where it needs it, etc etc etc...

- Check for leaks in your custom exhaust manifolds...
- Check to see if the inside of your turbo is still there and spins nicely...
- check for vacuum/boost leaks in your intake piping/cooler piping....
- check your fuel pressure
- check your injectors
- check your fuel rail

etc etc etc

you can't just slap something like this together, you really need to triple check every single thing, make sure every little bit is perfect and working.... this is why holden spend millions and millions of dollars designing and building motors, brackets, piping etc etc....

most importantly, take your time! if it's not finished by the end of the day, then so be it, you'd want to finish it the next day and do it properly, instead of rushing it and doing it dodgy...

once it's all done, if it's done properly and a lot of time/effort put into it, you'll have a setup that you can drive every single day without an issue.... otherwise you'll just always keep having problems which will just piss you off in the long run

my 2c

(whoa! monster post)

[vt1538]

I have to agree with Dave on this one, i cant remember how many times you have been advised to get a proper tune done! My feelings are, that all this heartache could have been avoided by getting it properly tuned on a dyno, this has been caused by detonation no doubt about it! You can have the best set up in the world but if the tunes not right this will be the result everytime.

I realise there are a few people on this site than can make good memcals and i'm not knocking them, but when it comes to a custom set up, imo you need a proper tune done in real time on a dyno.

Anyway, do as you will, but i think if you dont get it properly tuned & set up, you will keep coming back to this same scenario!

I agree fully. It will be o.k. to drive around without boosting but until you get the fuel & spark correct for boost you can damage your engine terminally. Dont be surprised if you lift the heads & find more than gasket issues.

[defa]

when you did the head gaskets before did you tension the heads down right. and did you check them again after running them for a while. i think it was furious_8 who told me to check mine. which i haven't done yet. i really should get onto that... you are having more trouble than me.

[PaRaDoX]

umm yeah used a torque wrench with the correct torque settings..

ive got it apart atm, blown a inlet gasket, but i found milky brown stuff in it (not alot but still some)

yeah i agree luke, this weekend im also doing engine mounts

i figured im gonna get some decomp copper gaskets and do em anyway, the engines half apart right now, i know how to do it, and im gonna rip the heads off this weekend and replace the headgaskets when they come in on monday... lower compression will make the buick last longer so i can save up and build a engine

it runs atm just rough on idle (stock 1 bar and stock tune),
cars been in the garage a week, havnt been boosting or driving it, it wont leave till its done

[PaRaDoX]

ok problem solving time guys, before i rip the heads off again i wanna make sure they actually need to come off.. heres the symptoms

issue ====== Probbable Cause
-------------------------
smoking manifolds = "heat proof paint burning"
ching ching ching noise = ???
bov not working(so it doses) = vac line wrong size on bov or vac leak
oil round PCV lower connector = blown out during boost, could be vac leak
milky brown goo in engine valley = blown headgasket? or maybe just water leaked into engine last time i ripped rocker covers off + let water drain
idles crap but revs fine = blown gasket?
decintigraded inlet gasket (not between anything important) = under boost it broke
smoke out of crank case breather

ill poke round the engine this weekend, im replacing my engine mounts and upgrading the brakes on it this weekend...

[andynogo]

Have you done a compression test and leakdown test on your cylinders?

This will usually tell you what problems you have. Low compression and poor leakdown results in one or more cylinders could be a blown gasket or cracks.

Usually the milky emulsion means blown gasket/cracked head/cracked block.

Rough idle certainly can be a blown gasket,but could be so many other things electrical.

Noticed any bubbles in the coolant when the engine is running? That's another sign that combustion gasses are bypassing somewhere through a gasket or crack.

Smoke out of the breather? Blow-by. Rings are a bit tired, or there is detonation damage in one or more pistons.

Ching ching ching noise? WTF????? Broken bits of piston land floating around combustion chamber? As mentioned before, exhaust leak? Loose coins in your pocket?

You mentioned smoke in your initial post (coolant or oil?). I'm guessing out the exhaust? Internal engine damage. I'd be preparing for a full disassemble.

I guess all you can do is do some pretty basic tests on the motor before you pull it down too much more, then go from there. Good luck.

[PaRaDoX]

no bubbles in coolant
smoke was from outside of manifolds

compression test is on the books

if bottom ends buggered, a cheap replacement bottom end can be had for under $100 with warranty
i need to find out to see if its worth ripping engine apart / back together

crap idle could be caused by vac leaks but where... (bov not working)
but what would cause the smoking crank case ventalation?

[andynogo]

Aaah, cool. I just scanned the posts so my bad.

Do the compression tests as I mentioned- don't worry for now about the specific psi reading, you're just looking for any that are way different from the rest (usually allow 10%). The leakdown you can time to see how long it takes to fall a certain number of psi, but is more complicated and you need the right gear to do it.

[PaRaDoX]

i did a compression test about 4 months ago, each cyclinder was reading at 150 exactly (not sure what the measurement was) thats spot on normal...

[defa]

when you say the bov isn't working properly. do you mean free reving or driving. cos you will be lucky to get it to go off when free reving. if there is a bad vaccum leak you should be able to hear it i reckon.. how many psi did you rev your car to. is seems funny you are having troubles. i didn't think you went that high. when my acuator hose came off my car went to 15- 17 psi a few times. when it wasn't intercooled it was going to 12psi and intercooled i have had it to 10. and still i haven't blown anything. are ya sure your boost gauge is reading right. and your wastegate isn't jammed shut.

[Hillerus]

Id do your compression test etc, if you find its all rooted, bite the bullet, yank the motor out, buy a cheap replacement, whack it in without the turbo setup. Just run a standard motor for a while, get an engine stand and build your new engine. At least you can drive your car around then. Do it once, do it right, and if you can afford it, put it on an engine dyno so you know its 100% before you fit it.

[AirStrike]

On the point of the bottom end with a warrenty for $100..............check the warrenty covers a boosted application.

[pandaman]

i did a compression test about 4 months ago, each cyclinder was reading at 150 exactly (not sure what the measurement was) thats spot on normal...

yeah, that was four months ago, since then you've chucked a turbo on it, heaped a fair amount of abuse on an old engine and now have some funny noises happening. The compression readings you had from four months ago are completely irrelevant to the problems you are having now. Find out what your current cylinder compressions are and you'll be one step closer to diagnosing your problem.

[PaRaDoX]

On the point of the bottom end with a warrenty for $100..............check the warrenty covers a boosted application.

umm warranty = works once installed, ie bolt it up and it dosnt work take it back and claim warranty (swap for a diffrent one) its at my local wreckers, my friends old man owns it anyway and im starting a job there soon

sounds like a vac leak to me, i was ment to bolt it together today but i ended up painting my v8 brakes and installing a sound system for a mate, ill bolt it back up toegether with new inlet gaskets tommorrow and try it...

[PaRaDoX]

just found oil + water out my exhust................ hrmmm