Fuel pump dead????

[PaRaDoX]

hey,

i got my new 570cc injectors in the other day, i was running low on petrol so the first stop was the petrol station, i made it a street away before she ran dry (started perfectly and ran good)

since then i added 30L with a big jerry can, it started up after removing memcal and cranking till it starts then dies as it dosnt know how to run... then i insert the memcal and start it, feels sloggy (gutless especially under boost) after 2-3psi no power increase after i noticed this i parked her for good (drove it for 15 mins, should have been enough to clear any air from fuel rails from changing injectors over)

before anyone asks, yes the injectors have all new O-rings, i cant see any leaks from the injectors

they're Siemens 570cc (55LB/H) High Impediance Injectors

now she wont even start, cranks fine trys to start but just cant....

i went out before and removed the rubber hose that connects the fuel line to the fuel rail and sure it had pressure but also alot of air in there (didnt leak more than 2-3 drops of petrol), so i put the hose back on turned it over to 2nd stage ignition, coulnt hear any fuel pump noises but could hear relay clicks in the engine bay... removed the hose again it had pressure and a bit more fuel in there but still had air

is it normal to have air in the fuel lines, and how pressurised are they ment to be???
is there anyway to be sure its a dead fuel pump

other thing i thought of is spark, however i havnt changed ANYTHING since when i left home, to putting the new petrol in it... after it ran dry it started playing up... im not sure when the fuel pump was done, the cars got 275,XXXk's on the clock so it could have been done at 150,xxx or even a original pump... i dont know for sure

now at this present time she wont start... i know a fuel pump upgrade will be required...

any idea's im going to bid on a bigger walbro one in 1 hour so any feedback would be siick

[AirStrike]

hey,

i got my new 570cc injectors in the other day, i was running low on petrol so the first stop was the petrol station, i made it a street away before she ran dry (started perfectly and ran good)

since then i added 30L with a big jerry can, it started up after removing memcal and cranking till it starts then dies as it dosnt know how to run... then i insert the memcal and start it, feels sloggy (gutless especially under boost) after 2-3psi no power increase after i noticed this i parked her for good (drove it for 15 mins, should have been enough to clear any air from fuel rails from changing injectors over)

before anyone asks, yes the injectors have all new O-rings, i cant see any leaks from the injectors

they're Siemens 570cc (55LB/H) High Impediance Injectors

now she wont even start, cranks fine trys to start but just cant....

i went out before and removed the rubber hose that connects the fuel line to the fuel rail and sure it had pressure but also alot of air in there (didnt leak more than 2-3 drops of petrol), so i put the hose back on turned it over to 2nd stage ignition, coulnt hear any fuel pump noises but could hear relay clicks in the engine bay... removed the hose again it had pressure and a bit more fuel in there but still had air

is it normal to have air in the fuel lines, and how pressurised are they ment to be???
is there anyway to be sure its a dead fuel pump

other thing i thought of is spark, however i havnt changed ANYTHING since when i left home, to putting the new petrol in it... after it ran dry it started playing up... im not sure when the fuel pump was done, the cars got 275,XXXk's on the clock so it could have been done at 150,xxx or even a original pump... i dont know for sure

now at this present time she wont start... i know a fuel pump upgrade will be required...

any idea's im going to bid on a bigger walbro one in 1 hour so any feedback would be siick

Why are you running such a large injector?
Having let the tank run dry, which I can't see how you ever could, is a big no no. It may have done two things, sucked all the **** into the pickup and blocked it or let it suck air and burnt out. Have some one turn the key to on (dont crank it tho) and stand at the tank, can you hear it priming?

*EDI* Also pull the fuel filter and either replace it or reverse flush it with compressed air.

[PaRaDoX]

i know letting the fuel system run dry is a hate crime, i didnt mean to do it.. i was nearly at the servo aswell...

a) suited for VN's
b) i got the 570cc ones for a good price, not a cheap price but a good one, if i decide to put in the time and money to boost it more then i wont need new injectors

ill try fuel filter but seriously, how would a blocked filter alow air and not petrol throuhg, if it were blocked it would block both correct??? i replaced it 5 months ago, still could be clogged, if i do pump i will be doing filter

i agree on the burnt fuel pump idea as it relies on petrol for lubrication and cooling, still dosnt explain the air in the fuel lines...


just incase anyone else asks, Yes ive checked all fuses and fuel pump relay

[AirStrike]

i know letting the fuel system run dry is a hate crime, i didnt mean to do it.. i was nearly at the servo aswell...

a) suited for VN's
b) i got the 570cc ones for a good price, not a cheap price but a good one, if i decide to put in the time and money to boost it more then i wont need new injectors

ill try fuel filter but seriously, how would a blocked filter alow air and not petrol throuhg, if it were blocked it would block both correct???

i agree on the burnt fuel pump idea as it relies on petrol for lubrication and cooling, still dosnt explain the air in the fuel lines...

Yeah I changed my post, I had brain failure and was thinking the commo's were a low impedance type. Those injectors would have to be making it run like ****!!! They would support in the region of 650-660hp...........which you have no hell of doing, so they are prob running at something like 30-35% duty cycle max which isn't good (based on a tune to suit), or just flooding the **** outta the engine.
Air in the lines..........it ran dry!! Would suck it from the tank.

[PaRaDoX]

hehehe its aight i had to lookup which type of injectors VN's took aswell

yeah they'd be air in there but i ran the car for a good 15 mins after running it dry (took some pursuasion to get started) that should have been enough to clear any air from the fuel lines (she had 30L in the tank)

and for running uber rich, we ajusted the KINJFLOW right down to something like 0.05 as apposed to stock 0.13, it ran fine before i ran outta petrol (its running the 2 bar map sensor)

im not too fussed replacing the fuel pump, i was going to get a bigger one anyway

im bidding on a new Walbro one, can always run 2x of these pumps later on (or replace it with a external pump) luke said it was a good one so ill trust his word as he hasnt been wrong about much, he also thinks my pump is dead

just tested it.... cant hear it prime.. it kinda makes some funny noises but its sure as hell not priming

[AirStrike]

hehehe its aight i had to lookup which type of injectors VN's took aswell

naaah ajusted the KINJFLOW right down to something like 0.05 as apposed to stock 0.13, it ran fine before i ran outta petrol

im not too fussed replacing the fuel pump, i was going to get a bigger one anyway

im bidding on a new Walbro one, can always run 2x of these pumps later on (or replace it with a external pump) luke said it was a good one so ill trust his word as he hasnt been wrong about much, he also thinks my pump is dead

just tested it.... cant hear it prime.. it kinda makes some funny noises but its sure as hell not priming

What's the noise like? With mine the blades broke away from the center shaft, so it tried to prime but couldn't. Made some funky gurgling sounds.
The walbro intanks are a pretty good pump for the price (RRP is around $220-250). They fitted one to V6 Vengence, which as you know ran an 11.9

[PaRaDoX]

sound was faint, kinda sounded like KRRRRR-TAC, nothing like a prime

yeah so ive been told, im bidding on one now finishes in 29 mins, currently at $99AUD, or i can do buy it now for $140 + $7 shipping so if i loose the bidding ill just pay the $147.... its from a ebay shop (all new)


just waiting to bid really
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....0725&rd=1&rd=1

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

You may have to run a volume pump in the tank and an external pressure pump to keep up the fuel to the injectors especially at boost. But to answer your question about the filter letting air through, liquid molecules are larger than air molecules so if the filter is blocked enough not to let the fuel through, air can still get through, but, if the pump was shagged then it wouldn't be pumping fuel. Is it pressure or vacuum in the line? Is the regulator diaphragm ok?

[PaRaDoX]

as far as ie can tell regulator is ok

it was pressure in the fuel line, not vaccume

[PaRaDoX]

winrar

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....0725&rd=1&rd=1

it was a bidding war but i won in the last 20 seconds :P $112.50 + $7 shipping, not too bad

[PaRaDoX]

it just arrived, its the same as vengence Walbro GSS341 255LPH he said they're rated at more 550HP-700HP

[holden007]

Thats a good price, cheaper then Genuine fuel pump.

[PaRaDoX]

yep, straight swap too...

been told its more like 550-600HP

its all installed, primes good (started raining when i finished so i called it a day)
its a genuine walbro one...

[AirStrike]

yep, straight swap too...

been told its more like 550-600HP

its all installed, primes good (started raining when i finished so i called it a day)
its a genuine walbro one...

Straight swap??? I was under the impression from the V6 Vengence write up some of the wiring had to be modded to suit.

[pandaman]

Straight swap??? I was under the impression from the V6 Vengence write up some of the wiring had to be modded to suit.

If it's pumping twice as much fuel as the standard while maintaining the same output pressure, then it's gotta be drawing at least twice as much current at peak load. The standard wiring might be too small for such a high current draw. Paradox is never gonna be getting near peak load (I hope) so the standard wiring will probably cope.

[PaRaDoX]

Straight swap??? I was under the impression from the V6 Vengence write up some of the wiring had to be modded to suit.

lol dude wiring is easy, had to crimp 2 wires together, wasnt really a challenge.. i didnt know petrol was a non-conducter of electricity, i was freakin out thinking it was going to short... then i looked at the original wires (has terminals exposed)

anyway if you look at the pictures in the SC mag they did a hack job on it :P, they just used electrical tape which the petrol will most likely disolve the adheasive and come undone then the wires will probbly cross :P i used crimps that came with the pump
to be honost... the standard wiring can cope with heaps guys, its like highquallity copper wire about 5-6 cores, it could handle ALOT of current

when i say straight swap i mean fitted in the same few minor changes but nothing that required fabrication, took me 30 mins to install after petrol was drained (car was already on stands)



EDIT: just started her up shes running rich, before she was running lean at the same setting, gonna ajust it abit for the injector flowrate.... should be going today.. she starts tho

[AirStrike]

lol dude wiring is easy, had to crimp 2 wires together, wasnt really a challenge.. i didnt know petrol was a non-conducter of electricity, i was freakin out thinking it was going to short... then i looked at the original wires (has terminals exposed)

anyway if you look at the pictures in the SC mag they did a hack job on it :P, they just used electrical tape which the petrol will most likely disolve the adheasive and come undone then the wires will probbly cross :P i used crimps that came with the pump
to be honost... the standard wiring can cope with heaps guys, its like highquallity copper wire about 5-6 cores, it could handle ALOT of current

when i say straight swap i mean fitted in the same few minor changes but nothing that required fabrication, took me 30 mins to install after petrol was drained (car was already on stands)



EDIT: just started her up running KINJFLOW of 0.05, shes running rich (goooooooood thing) before she was running lean at the same setting, gonna ajust it abit for the injector flowrate.... should be going today.. she starts tho

Yeah I knew it wasn't anything difficult, but you do have to mod it slightly to suit. Good to hear it might be running finally.

[PaRaDoX]

yeah oh well, knew the fuel system would have to be done, oh well new manifolds, exhust, trans and engine to go!