just got LPG installed - stoked

[mutley770]

been driving around in my 93 Berlina V6 which has just had LPG installed. I opted for a brand new kit, it's a MED dual fuel system and cost $2400. Having never owned a car that’s been fitted, I reckon LPG is bloody sweet

When you start it up, it automatically does so on petrol. If it’s cold you let it warm up for about 20-30 seconds and depress the accelerator lightly for a few seconds then you hear the solenoids switching over to LPG. It’s pretty seamless.

My first impressions driving it around is it is a crap load smoother. There seems to be a lot less noise, shuddering and vibration from the motor. Like a taxi LOL. It is very slightly less responsive but most people wouldn’t notice it’s that minor (ie in Holley carb terms, it’s like it needs a slightly bigger accel pump squirt!).. Once past the initial change in acceleration though, there seems to be more torque under ~3500rpm.

So I left it in 1st and booted it all the way to redline – and honestly I can hardly feel the difference in performance at higher RPM. I don’t even know if there is a change in performance compared to before. This may all be because my injectors were all old and dirty, but whatever – all they’re needed for now is to start the damn thing Anyway, if you were sitting there thinking about the conversion I say do it.

Looks like I need to adjust my accelerator cable to get the throttle to open 100% but being a VP it has the notch in the throttlebody stop already. Then I need to get a remapped chip with more timing in it I think and get this thing going a bit harder. Did I read correctly that VPs have less timing in them than VNs?

[Morton]

Yeah, they have a bit less. A less aggressive cam, too, I think. Are you getting the government rebate? That sounds sweet

[mutley770]

Yeah getting the rebate - of course!!!

Never heard they had a smaller cam, are you sure about this? Nice VP by the way, mines the same colour.

[badger__rox]

how many km's you getting out of how many litres and wheres your tank.. does it look messy in the boot.. much boot space left??? is it possible to get a donut tank to fit in the spare wheel section?? just courious

[mutley770]

Badger the tank occupies the raised section of the boot near the back seats - just in between the shock absorber mounts. It does take up a fair bit of room but the boot is pretty big in our cars.

Fitted a portable cot, a pram, suitcase, esky and another softbag with relative ease on a family holiday trip this weekend.

Not sure how much fuel I've used but something's gotta be wrong... I've done 280kms on LPG so far and it hasn't even registered on the fuel gauge yet (goes down in quarters with 4 LEDs that turn off until it's empty). But that can't be right, if it is I'm fcuking laughing LOL!!

I'll come back here and post my fuel usage when it's time to fill up.

Anyone else care to comment on how much LPG they use just cruising?

[mulligan-can]

Can you switch between petrol and gas? And was it 2400 including labour?

[STEALTHY™]

Please stock up on Airboxes, you'll be blowing them in no time!


Doctor Sodways has blown 3 and his gas was only installed about 6 (maybe a bit more) months ago

[Doctor Sodways]

Is yours the typical gas ring system where the gas is injected before the throttle body? As stelthy said, i blew at least 4 airboxes up, and a K&N pod filter

If it is, do as stealthy said, stock up on airboxes or get a valve fitted or something so that instead of blowing airboxes and panel filters to bits, you blow something out that is easily replaceable on the spot, like a couple of plugs that are tied to the box, they come out, you pop bonnet, put them back in and your set.

My old man also has what is effectively a stubbie or echo holder, over the intake pipe, there are two holes under it, if it blows, it blows out that, it seals well enough to run properly on gas and petty no problem.

Good luck with the gas system, i wont be putting gas on another car, too many problems for my liking, but hey, each to their own, ive got a father that swears by it, and he has a son that hates it

[mutley770]

Cheers Dr Sodways, doesn't sound like a good experience! Can you tell me in what circumstances this was happening? Was it on startup, switching over, or just cruising along? They issued me with severe warnings never to start with the foot on the gas as this would happen.

I think it's unfair to outright suggest LPG=damage. Something must going wrong with the install whether it's a faulty 02 sensor, ignition, or simply dud tuning. If it is truly the case then they're up the creek as I've got a complete 2 year warranty and I'll take them to town for a shoddy install.

when they did my installation there was a dodgy coil pack that was juust working OK in petrol mode, but not in LPG mode which is harder to ignite (more load on said dodgy coil pack). They blew the airbox as there was a misfire due to the coilpack.. so they replaced both and it's all fine.

anyway, it's a good suggestion about setting up the plugs that blow out. Will do man.. cheers.

[STEALTHY™]

Its not the install, as i know many people who have had the same problem!


I usually go by the theory that gas is for BBQs, the only time Gas is beneficial is if your running straight gas, and is tuned to suit, as it has a higher octane

[badger__rox]

yer maybe gas insnt as good as it seems.. i kno on dad's eb falcon when ya wash the engine it wont start again on gas due to the coil getting wet i thought i was doing him a favor one day n washed his engine bay being cautious not to get the engine to wet but it ****ed up.. wasnt a fun trip home..

[Doctor Sodways]

I got 5ks down the road after my install and blew my airbox to pieces cruising along, we replaced the coil pack, DFI module, spark plugs twice, leads, 02 sensor, and as for when it happened, when didnt it happen, was fairly random, cruising, downshift, startup, switching, the lot, the car is being wrecked now, so i never worked out exactly what was wrong, but your right, not the best experience.

Ford inline sixes run fairly well on gas, and there are some people that have good runs on gas, my old man is one of them, another of my mates never really had any problems on his VN, but its an individual basis thing i think, each car is different, each has a different history, and each reacts differently

Good Luck though

[adam69]

Have VQ V8 on gas,no air box problem coz i done have one.Have a VP V6 on gas it has an air box and no problems.Just got a AU2 ute on straight LPG and drove it for the first time today and its very responsive.The AU is better than my dads BA on dual fuel.

[LoZzA199]

i got my vp on gas about a month ago. its a impco system, cost me about $2500. got the government rebate.

i was hoping to get more k's out of a tank though, i am getting about 350 out of a 69 litres usable tank. mostly around town trips. does that sound about right?

guy at the gas place said it could need a new oxygen sensor he said it was slow on picking up so i pit a new one in but didnt notice any difference

[mutley770]

Sounds to me like whoever had set up the LPG on the cars that keep blowing up were simply running way too lean. Did you have a cold air intake on it? I wonder if that was factored into the install. Maybe a manifold leak?

Lozza I'm getting about the same, ~350kms to a tank driving around town. This economy is actually better than the mileage I was getting using fuel around town so I think my injectors needed a service.

I did 300kms on 56L of LPG - which cost me $27 to fill up. That will last me about two weeks of driving around in traffic. That is farken cheap - I love it. Gas isn't for BBQs, it's for the environment, my wife, my kid and my house deposit thanks!

[Doctor Sodways]

No cold air intake, i did discuss it with the installer, and there is provisions for it if i was going to put one on. 350 sounds about right to me, we get 330ish from my old mans jackaroo on gas, and my mate was getting a tad under 400 on his VN if i recall right.

There were no leaks prior to gas install, and the motor was perfect, once gas went on, as was to be expected, some problems surfaced, but what surfaced was rediculous.

There was a leak somewhere in my motor, was when it backfired and blew the intake manifold gasket to pieces, after that was replaced it was still having problems, couldnt find a leak to save our lives, me and my mechanic spent hours and hours looking for anything, but couldnt find it, but its done and dusted now, no point trying to work it out.

The system in mine was completely computer controlled, as i suspect they all would be now, and each time the gas fitter got the car, it was re tuned, and still had problems.

Once again, good luck, when it all works, gas isnt THAT bad, but i wont be doing it again, rebate or no rebate

[STEALTHY™]

Sounds to me like whoever had set up the LPG on the cars that keep blowing up were simply running way too lean. Did you have a cold air intake on it? I wonder if that was factored into the install. Maybe a manifold leak?

Lozza I'm getting about the same, ~350kms to a tank driving around town. This economy is actually better than the mileage I was getting using fuel around town so I think my injectors needed a service.

I did 300kms on 56L of LPG - which cost me $27 to fill up. That will last me about two weeks of driving around in traffic. That is farken cheap - I love it. Gas isn't for BBQs, it's for the environment, my wife, my kid and my house deposit thanks!

Interesting post. Everyone i know has to use double the amount of gas, for half the k's (my car regularly gets 600 o a tank, filling up for about 50-60) plus i don't lose out on power, and my motor will last longer (yes its proven you'll be going thru piston rings alot sooner than i

[mutley770]

Hmm, I'm not sure why, but STEALTHY I seem to have put your nickers in a knot from the outset. It's all good buddy.

I'd like to question this though - so you fill up for $60 at $1.20 a litre - 50L of fuel. And based on that 50L you get 600kms out of it? That's 8.3L per 100km.

The best my V6 ever achieved was 8L/100km purely highway driving and being very, very careful with my right foot. The best I ever achieved around town, no highway, on petrol was 320kms on a full tank. This is the type of driving I've managed my 350km out of on gas. In this type of driving, I have actually experienced an improvement in economy.

As for increased ring wear - there's no actual wet fuel to wash the oil off the bores. So how does it happen (very keen to know).

[mulligan-can]

As for increased ring wear - there's no actual wet fuel to wash the oil off the bores. So how does it happen (very keen to know).

Increased detonation or something? Gas will prolly also come in at a higher pressure then petty. And mix with air more readily. And ignite differently so I could easily believe increased ring wear simply as the engine isn't specifically taylored to gas and thus diffences may cause increased wear n tear

[STEALTHY™]

Hmm, I'm not sure why, but STEALTHY I seem to have put your nickers in a knot from the outset. It's all good buddy.

I'd like to question this though - so you fill up for $60 at $1.20 a litre - 50L of fuel. And based on that 50L you get 600kms out of it? That's 8.3L per 100km.

The best my V6 ever achieved was 8L/100km purely highway driving and being very, very careful with my right foot. The best I ever achieved around town, no highway, on petrol was 320kms on a full tank. This is the type of driving I've managed my 350km out of on gas. In this type of driving, I have actually experienced an improvement in economy.

As for increased ring wear - there's no actual wet fuel to wash the oil off the bores. So how does it happen (very keen to know).

You havn't got my nickers in a knot. I was purely just offering a different point of view to the matter. Someone reading this thread might think, oh yeah gas is the bee's knees, when infact it could be the exact opposite. Its a discussion forum, what a sad and sorry would it would be if a thread was 'gas is great' and then had 45 posts saying 'i agree' would it not?


My car is regularly under 9L/100 so those k's to a tank are quite acceptable (yes i have a V6 too, and for the fuel side of things, the V8 was much much better on fuel)
I'd also assume your car is an auto? mine is manual, so of course my fuel usuage will be alot better than yours. Even on the freeway doing 130, its still under 10L/100, infact the only time its been over 10 is when i'm at a burnout comp.


As for the wear, i'm not exactly sure how it happens, but my mechanic who installs gas warned me against it due to having to rebuild alot sooner than a petrol motor. that is unless you have the car properly tuned, to run straight gas (take your fuel tank out and all lines etc), thats the only way i can see gas being beneficial. To the average user, all they do is switch between the 2, and with that setup, is where the problems arise.

feel free to leave bar rep if you think my post is pure crap, but i go by what i can see, sure Dr Sodways case may be an extremem one, but being in ever SA car club, i know alot of peplewith different cars, and the results don't get much better!

[mutley770]

......double post

[mutley770]

No worries STEALTHY, I agree that's what's forums are for - just it seemed your tone in the post I was replying to earlier seemed pretty negative. Anyway I'll continue for the benefit of anyone considering the install.

Comparing apples to apples, not 'my car to your car' - my fuel economy has not gone down drastically. Put simply, with my driving style around town (which is pretty heavy footed) I have not witnessed a reduction in fuel economy beyond what everyone seems to suggest at around 10-20% (not 50% as has been mentioned!).

The engine wear issue, unless talking about valve seats which I'll address in a sec for anyone considering the install, is pretty well unfounded. Engine wear in the bores or rings is obviously caused by lubrication problems. The reason why Taxis run for 500,000kms plus only touching the head (because of inherent alloy head probs on Falcon taxis) is because there is no petrol fuel to wash the oil off the bores either in startup or normal running conditions. This is a fact that is echoed pretty well everywhere in the research I've done!

On pre unleaded cars which needed lead to prevent wear on the valve seats, sure - there will be wear as LPG can't lubricate. On unleaded cars the valve seats are already hardened to accomodate this so there's no worry with LPG.

If your car isn't tuned correctly and things break, well it is just like if you don't have a petrol car tuned properly. If you're running a lean mixture or have your timing too advanced, pinging all over the place and your burning valves - then regardless petrol or LPG you will get wear.

But with the system I'm running, it is tuned correctly using an exhaust analyser (so it has a good base level tune) and it constantly corrects the mixture like any typical LPG system with the 02 sensor. The only thing that is significantly different from my dual fuel system to a dedicated gas system is the ignition timing is unaltered. The advance curve could start going up a little earlier to suit, and a little more over the whole range but that's about it. So I'm not getting optimum performance in the daily driver due to the amount of ignition, but I'll be stuffed if I know how it will wear out over a dedicated gas system. A dedicated gas system will simply offer more performance as far as I can tell.

Anyway, if it blows up I WILL tell you guys - I am just of the impression that it's a good little setup. All in all, my car is just a Commodore, I don't think it rocks that hard that I need to get personally attached to it. I'll leave that for the Charger LOL.

[STEALTHY™]

Sure you need to keep any car tuned properly, but i'm going by the cost side of things. If i aint broke, don't fix it. Your still spending 'more' money getting he gas tuned, than you would've on your car already tuned fine for petrol.


Either way, i'll never use gas, if i'm looking to buy a car and it has gas, i wont even bother ringing up about it. Theres just too many negatives for me (and problems associated with just the gas)


Like i said tho, if you tune your car for straight Gas, i've never seen a problem with that type of setup, but the cost of doing it is alot more expensive than just using normal petrol

[Doctor Sodways]

Mine was running the computer with an exhaust analyser constantly correcting the tune, and i still managed to blow the **** outta stuff on my engine, not saying your wrong, jsut giving my version of events

[IMCRZY]

IMO gas is just a waist of space u wont really make ur money back unless ur doin 1,000,000kms & it is just a pain in the ass....

Unless its factory fitted gas i just dont think its worth it