Dumb mistakes cost alot.

[Jasoniumh]

A week ago my wife and I went to her cousins wedding a couple of hours drive up the coast. I did what any normal guy does before a short trip, I checked the fluids. When I finished I loaded the car with kids and the wife and drove up the highway.
About 20 minutes into the trip I heard a noise over the radio, I turned off the radio and immediately started to lose power, fortunately there was an exit to a service station just up ahead. I pulled in just as the engine cut out.
I parked and lifted the bonnet to find smoke coming from all sorts of places, "blown her" I thought, shut the bonnet and rang my father to come and rescue us. He came and got us and lent me HIS VP Commodore so we could get to the wedding, After a lovely night in the hinterland surrounded by family we made our way back to the broken car to see what the matter was.
I opened the bonnet and all became very clear as to how utterly stupid one can get when in a hurry.... no radiator cap!
It seems I forgot to replace it when I checked the water ... boiled it dry, smoke from the motor was overheated oil that was so thin it passed through seals. OK. Big problems, bought a radiator cap and filled her with oil to see what would happen. She started and I managed to get her home. Upon reaching home I popped the bonnet to find the top hose under a lot of pressure, sure to be blown head gasket/s. Not surprised.
Spent the next few days repairing the blown head gaskets, all done and back together. Fired her up and it runs, yahoo!. If it wasn't for the smoke coming from the back of the car, the extremely rough idle and the scapping knocking noise coming from the front of the engine, I would have been very happy. OK checked everything... A-ha! Map sensor vacum hose was off. Fixed that, start her up and it sounds alot better, no smoke, better(?) idle and scraping noise reduced. Took off belt and no scraping noise, not internal. Used a pipe to check all other spinning things attached to front of the motor and is sounds like the idler tensioner. I can live with that for a while.
Still slightly rough at idle, so I checked the injectors by pulling the leads off them one at a time. Injector above No. 3 cylinder. Swapped the injectors around, still No. 3. Checked for spark, after getting a whack from the lead I suspected I have plenty of spark going to my brand new spark plugs.
Now my question is.... Why have I dropped cylender three when its getting fuel and spark? Valves? I hope not, looking forward to your comments.

[pandaman]

A week ago my wife and I went to her cousins wedding a couple of hours drive up the coast. I did what any normal guy does before a short trip, I checked the fluids. When I finished I loaded the car with kids and the wife and drove up the highway.
About 20 minutes into the trip I heard a noise over the radio, I turned off the radio and immediately started to lose power, fortunately there was an exit to a service station just up ahead. I pulled in just as the engine cut out.
I parked and lifted the bonnet to find smoke coming from all sorts of places, "blown her" I thought, shut the bonnet and rang my father to come and rescue us. He came and got us and lent me HIS VP Commodore so we could get to the wedding, After a lovely night in the hinterland surrounded by family we made our way back to the broken car to see what the matter was.
I opened the bonnet and all became very clear as to how utterly stupid one can get when in a hurry.... no radiator cap!
It seems I forgot to replace it when I checked the water ... boiled it dry, smoke from the motor was overheated oil that was so thin it passed through seals. OK. Big problems, bought a radiator cap and filled her with oil to see what would happen. She started and I managed to get her home. Upon reaching home I popped the bonnet to find the top hose under a lot of pressure, sure to be blown head gasket/s. Not surprised.
Spent the next few days repairing the blown head gaskets, all done and back together. Fired her up and it runs, yahoo!. If it wasn't for the smoke coming from the back of the car, the extremely rough idle and the scapping knocking noise coming from the front of the engine, I would have been very happy. OK checked everything... A-ha! Map sensor vacum hose was off. Fixed that, start her up and it sounds alot better, no smoke, better(?) idle and scraping noise reduced. Took off belt and no scraping noise, not internal. Used a pipe to check all other spinning things attached to front of the motor and is sounds like the idler tensioner. I can live with that for a while.
Still slightly rough at idle, so I checked the injectors by pulling the leads off them one at a time. Injector above No. 3 cylinder. Swapped the injectors around, still No. 3. Checked for spark, after getting a whack from the lead I suspected I have plenty of spark going to my brand new spark plugs.
Now my question is.... Why have I dropped cylender three when its getting fuel and spark? Valves? I hope not, looking forward to your comments.

Do a compression test, if it's got fuel and spark, compression is the next suspect. If it's dropped enough compression to completely kill the cylinder, you're in for a re-ring probably, could be a chewed cam lobe or some damn thing, but you'd probably hear that.

[cxcxcxvcvcvc]

maybe due to the thinning of the oil the spark plug even though new might be very dirty its worth a quick look! and yeah as pandaman said check those too. hope it works out for you mate.

[Jasoniumh]

Put new ones in when I changed the oil but before I did the head gaskets. I'll check them... thanks.

[cxcxcxvcvcvc]

if all else fails mate just whack another engine in her from the trading post? maybe even an ecotec or 5 litre so is the no.3 cyclinder not fireing? if so and theres no knock from the motor and you have spark/fuel then the only other thing it can be is compresion failure. if you can get her running throw some good injector cleaner through her and take her for a cruise to get the new oil running through her and let the injector cleaner do its work. just make sure you have a mobile to give your dad a ring if she dies or something or just get him to follow you for a bit?

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

After doing head gaskets, sometimes a bit of old gasket or some other crap drops down the valve stem and stops the valve from closing properly. Also check to make sure each rocker is seated on the pushrods properly. This will cause a noise and a miss as well.

[Jasoniumh]

Ok, dont know how I missed this but there is a massive crack around the passenger side exhaust manifold, could this be upsetting the oxygen sensor?

[immortality]

Ok, dont know how I missed this but there is a massive crack around the passenger side exhaust manifold, could this be upsetting the oxygen sensor?

can do (10 character thingy)

[pandaman]

Ok, dont know how I missed this but there is a massive crack around the passenger side exhaust manifold, could this be upsetting the oxygen sensor?

Possibly, it's more likely to just make a hell of a weird noise and cause you to drop a bit of performance.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Yes it will because you will be sucking in fresh air every time you back off so the O2 sensor will be reading lean causing more fuel to be injected. Won't explain number 3 cylinder not firing though. Did you also swap spark plugs with another cylinder to eliminate a dodgy plug? They have been known to be faulty when new.

[pandaman]

Yes it will because you will be sucking in fresh air every time you back off so the O2 sensor will be reading lean causing more fuel to be injected. Won't explain number 3 cylinder not firing though. Did you also swap spark plugs with another cylinder to eliminate a dodgy plug? They have been known to be faulty when new.

02 sensor shouldn't affect the idle too much though, as it's only really used for metering at stoich ratio isn't it?

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

It uses stoich as a reference but the ECU maps the AF ratio constantly. Even at idle it will be reading lean, between each cylinder firing you will have a bit of air sucked in as the exhaust pulse passes the crack. The fact that it is a VP and only has one O2 sensor will be better as it is reading both banks. Better as in not upsetting the sensor as much.

[VTPREDATOR]

deffinately get a compression test. couldve cracked something internal.

[tyrefryer]

Upon reaching home I popped the bonnet to find the top hose under a lot of pressure, sure to be blown head gasket/s.

interesting this....my car gets wikked pressure in that top hose but never really shows hot on the dash its always so cool, and the radiator cap doesnt get as hot as the pipe, i thort i had a faulty thermostat but the car runs like **** so do you think its the head gasket....ur problem sounds alot like whats wrong with mine which i cant work out, iv changed injectors, leads, coilpack, spark plugs...but its also started doin something else, when im cruising at about 90km/h and open the throttle just a bit it gets really bumpy and if i try and open it up more to stop the jumping engine it pops a few times...kinda like im running over choc milk cartons and they are popping (my best explaination)...but yeh its really bugging me cos the car runs so rough and uses way too much fuel

[Jasoniumh]

Sounds like it could well be a head gasket, when you start it cold with the radiator cap off, is the water bubbling? To make sure take it down to a mech and get him to hold a CO2 sensor in the radiator cap hole, will tell you if engine emissions are getting into the water jacket, this test was done at no charge by a guy at Midas in Morafeild (top bloke); if the solution turns green its your head gaskets..... just prey its the passenger side, getting past the brake booster is a bugger, had to take the booster out in mine, a royal pain at best. A compression test would nail down the culprit I would imagine ( something I haven't done, but then I did both gaskets). I am getting some testing done next week when finances improve, lucky for the old Camry I've been lent to get me thru.

[tyrefryer]

well i havent tried running it with the cap off but most of the time when i take it off when the water is warm i can see bubbles and a brownish colour, normally the water is really clean looking when its cold but it gets very dirty when its warm.
if its a head gasket id may as well just put a new motor in bcos those things arent cheap and also a pain to fit...thanks for ur help jasoniumh

[cxcxcxvcvcvc]

high pressure in the top radiator hose is normal after the engine heats up! check your return hose to the radiator and it will be just as high in pressure

[PaRaDoX]

first stop compression test!

did you do your inlet manifold gaskets? i had mine let go on me (between manifold and head) check firing order, check for vaccume leaks, inspect leads (for fouled leads due to massive heat)other than that the coil packs could have been heated (they dont like it)

but first things first, identify Mechanical or Electronic

compression test will tell u this go from there and by the way, when doing the test to avoid a electric fence shock open up the fuse/relay box and pull out the EFI relay, this will cut spark & fuel but still crank just wont start, then put it back in after the test

[Jasoniumh]

high pressure in the top radiator hose is normal after the engine heats up! check your return hose to the radiator and it will be just as high in pressure

After I fixed my head gaskets my vp at full op temp had a huge pressure drop. Paradox is right, get a compression test done first.
By the way, the idle seems to have settled down, not perfect but heaps better, maybe the injector cleaner is doing its job.

[cxcxcxvcvcvc]

After I fixed my head gaskets my vp at full op temp had a huge pressure drop. Paradox is right, get a compression test done first.
By the way, the idle seems to have settled down, not perfect but heaps better, maybe the injector cleaner is doing its job.

well my vs calais v6 has substantial pressue in both the top radiator hose and the return hose and she never gets over halfway on the mark

[tyrefryer]

yeh sure some pressure is normal but this is so high the actual pipe diameter will incease enuf to tell just by looking at it.

[Jasoniumh]

OK, UPDATE TIME.

Put a new donk in. Well a second hand donk. Dropped it in on the weekend. Hooked everything up and off we go....almost. Breaks down under load, so I replaced the coil pack. No change. New leads, no change. I performed a system check, code 12 all normal. I unhooked the oxygen sensor, no change. Oxygen sensor? or is the massive crack in the manifold above the O2 Sensor. Hmmmmm..... Wreckers want $90 for second hand passenger side exhaust manifold. Grrrrrrr. Not this week. The new engine worked perfectly in the old car but hooked it up to mine and it all went pear shaped. Suspect something in my engine bay is stuffed. Any Ideas? And please dont say CAS. As I said it worked fine in the other car(VP-same model)

[ashzv6]

r u running the same ecu and wiring as the other car?

[Jasoniumh]

Yep, same loom same ecu everything the same 'cept the engine itself. OK I should point out the the old motor ran like a piece of ****. It was buggered tho cuase of the cooking process. But yes its the same ECU.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Can you get the ECU from the donor car? Change that and see how it goes.