Dies occasionally (kinda long)

[89 vn]

Hi all, i just bought recently a vn com and owned it now for abit, the car is good except the car sometimes 'stalls' on me ive read about it and i thinkl i may have found an answer but i wanna hear what u guys think:

When the car dies it sometimes misfires really loudly other times not..
Ive tried pouring water on the crank sensor when it dies but the car usually starts first go apart from a hard start.
Sometimes as well when i try to start it first go it, ill start it and it will make this weird metallic sound of scraping or just a "uhhhhhnn" sound, so i have to just try it again

I thought maybe the fuel pump..but i can always hear the whirring at the start and the end of a drive, on the unofficial holden page i found these 2 'problems' as well

VN Commodore Rough Idle
Faulty wiring connection. Black wire with Yellow trace - inside the engine bay coming from EFI control unit. Single wire splits off to two wires. Hold wire, squeeze or move wire at join and the engine should increase in idle then settle. In some cases, the engine may stall. Repair connection.

The above wires run to the Coolant Temperature Sensor and the Throttle Position Sensor

VN - VS Stops When Hot, Will Start Once Cooled
Main charge wire from alternator burns out at the back of the alternator due to heat down in the well behind the alternator at the top of the motor above the temp switch. You will find that it will seem as though you have a flat battery but once the car has been left to cool down for about half an hour it will start again. This is because when the wire gets hot it expands and the power can't get to the battery because the wire has broken down due to excessive heat. When the wire gets a chance to cool down all of a sudden the charge that is stored in the alternator and the wire will get through to the battery and you will then have just enough power to start the engine again. I replaced the ****y little thin wire than holden puts on there with a heavy duty VB battery wire which I re-routed along the side of the existing wire casing running to the battery. I fitted up a new battery terminal to take this lead and have had no problems since.

thanks for any help you guys can give me i need to get this fixed

[dufus]

Check the computer to see if you have any fault codes. This thread shows how to check your computer for fault codes: http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...lts-vn-vp.html

[89 vn]

If the computer is telling me codes for example the O2 sensor does that cause the car to die? ill go try it and see if i can get any up

[89 vn]

Ok, fault codes: (assuming i wrote them down right :/)
13 Oxygen sensor output remained at .35-.55 volts for more than one
minute after warmup. Possible open circuit.

25 MAT sensor showed above 145 degrees C for 2 seconds after
engine ran for over 1 minute. Possible short circuit

33 MAP sensor voltage too high (> 4.00 v). Possible vacuum leak to
sensor or faulty sensor.

42 Open or short on EST or BYPASS line to ignition module.

i think i read somewhere u could reset your cpu by revving to 3k for 10 secs, is this with the clip in?
ok i have no idea how to fix these probs or what they even mean any help is awesome thanks

[Cheap6]

Now you have extracted the codes, try clearing them and see which one(s) come(s) up when it next cuts out. I suspect that the 13 will disappear and the 33 is due to a backfire. 42 indicates a DFI fault or an ECM fault or the wiring to/from them. Can you get the stall by moving any of the wiring harnesses under the bonnet or to the ECM (which is behind the LHS kick panel, under the glovebox)?

Clear the codes by disconnecting either the battery earth or removing and replacing the fusible link marked "EFI" in front of the fuse box under the bonnet.

[89 vn]

[QUOTE=Cheap6;672616] Can you get the stall by moving any of the wiring harnesses under the bonnet or to the ECM QUOTE]

Ive taken out the efi fuse and put it back in and the same codes remain, I read on another site theres a yellow/black wire from the engine and if u squeeze/move it it can make your car idle rougher or even die but i tried it on mine (its hard to get a grip of it)and nothing seemed to happen. ill try moving the wires under the kickpanel to see if it stalls, ty

[Cheap6]

If the codes are still there, they haven't been cleared properly. The O2 sensor code will only set under conditions that don't occur until you drive the car. If the car is a VN S1, it will be slightly different to later models as to which fusible link supplies power to the ECM and I don't remember exactly which one it is (it will be one or other of the right most ones as you look to the back of the car from the engine bay). Either removing all of them or disconnecting the battery will work (but also lose any radio settings).

What happens if you move the wiring harness to the DFI with the engine running? (Being careful to keep all your fingers, of course ).

If it only stalls at idle, you could try a throttle body/idle air control valve clean, but that problem won't set codes.

The MAT and MAP share an earth path to the ECM, which may be a clue. The black wires out of them will join in the harness and go to pin A11 at the
ECM.

The earth path for the CTS and TPS is black/yellow??

[89 vn]

It stalls when driving theres been a few times ive gone to overtake, increased speed and its died.
It dies alot more with low fuel but still does, ive been told its most likely my fuel tank but it can hear it whirring but i read on another forum it could be a 'fuel surge' and to be honest i think its that because of the way it just dies but i know nothing heh.

Ill try discon the battery or all the fuses.

hrm this may sound stupid but am i missing any fuses?
cheap6 u seem to know alot my fuse box goes:

small fuses big block fuses
15 15 25 (the second 15,25 fuses are in the reverse way)
| | | EFI AVCMP Horn Fuel Pump Eng Fan

15 25 empty Start L/Beam H/Beam LPCK (empty) (empty)
| | | Theft horn Fog

when i cleaned the inside of my car i found one of those fuses not knowing what it was for so i kept it incase.
Sorry for the annoying questions etc but thanks alot for your help so far

[Cheap6]

I'm not looking at a car atm so have to rely on my alcohol challenged memory .

Under the bonnet, on the driver's side of the car near the battery, in front of the big fuse box that I think that you are looking at, will be a smaller fuse box about 100m X 30mm. In this (under the cover) are the fusible links, basically big fuses.

They should be marked something like 25, 30 or 40 amps, depending on which circuit each is for.

There will actually be 4 or 5 (depending on the model but there will be 5 spaces for them regardless), with the centre one impossible to remove by hand (it is bolted in) but the others will be able to be removed.

Removing (and replacing of course) the one (or ones) closest to the centre of the car will clear the ECM fault codes. The labels on the cover are a bit non-intuitive but will be something like "EFI" or "ENG COMP" for the relevant links.

With your description of how it is stopping, it is possible that it is a fuel supply problem. If the codes don't return immediately or with moving the harnesses, that becomes more likely. Before condemning a fuel pump though, I would try a fuel filter.

It's no prob. re. Q's. I would only like to be more specific in providing answers.

(From your description, what you are referring to as "big block fuses" are actually relays ).

[89 vn]

Ok i disconnected the battery and recon, the codes are now showing 12 but now when i try to start the car it wont start and is ticking like a flat battery so im charging the battery, does that mean i have another problem with my battery/connections etc?

[Cheap6]

12 is the "no code currently but I know you're asking" code ie. all is good so far.

If the battery terminal or wire is broken or a poor connection, that would cause the no start problem. The battery won't go flat just because you have disconnected the terminal though, it will be either that it isn't back on properly or in removing/replacing it, the wire has broken somewhere.

When you get the battery terminal sorted, see what codes (if any) come back after you start and drive the car. (You should get a "Check Engine" light, CEL, if/when a code sets. The CEL should come on with the ignition on but engine not running, then go out when the engine starts, then only come on with a fault present).

[89 vn]

Put the battery back in last night after it charged for 3 hours and it started AOK and went for a small drive, and was fine today on way to work.Ill have to check the fault codes later to see if there are anymore..what if the same codes just come back?

[Cheap6]

Wait to see which ones and when they occur. Some of the codes may not be related or directly related, to the cutting out problem. If you try moving the harnesses again and a code or codes set, that is a good indication of where the fault may be.

[azkwazere]

yeah, just wait till the codes come back before you start stressing out.... post them up here and someone will give you some good adice as to your next course of action.

aZk.

[89 vn]

Code 42 only now, that prob with the battery is my connectors as well, my car died this morning at work, couldnt start at all (like flat battery) i messed around with the connectors and then the car just fired up so i think i need new stuff for that..

[Cheap6]

The battery connector(s) could be causing the codes to set and the cutting out so, yes, best to fix it (them) first before looking for anything else. If the connection to the battery terminals aren't good the battery won't be charged from the alternator very well but I do think that your no crank/hard start will only be due to the terminal connection(s); unless you had something drawing current while you were testing. Just disconnecting and reconnecting the battery wouldn't have caused it to lose charge.

What are the wires like? The terminals can corrode away but also the wires can become corroded inside the insulation too. The giveaway is a crunchy feel when you move them. Occasionally they will break inside the insulation.

[89 vn]

Heh the battery is gross man its got this orange crap i cleaned off it but the battery looks rather new but the cords do not so i guess it is that maybe..

my friend of a friend whos a mechanic is hopefully gonna look at it tonight if he isnt busy, sad thing is the car was running very well this morning then, dead...*bang* no start

[Luka]

rip old termanels off your cords to your battery. replace maybe. peice of **** to do. couple of screws