12 second car

[savage1987]

So...... just felt like asking, what does a VN need in order to end up with a 12 second street car? I'm considering an LS1 manual for mine and I couldn't help wondering.

Sam

[vnv8driver]

v6 turbo @ 20psi
v8 s/c @10psi
ls1 with mafless tune, exhaust

[VN_Luke]

v6 turbo @ 20psi
v8 s/c @10psi
ls1 with mafless tune, exhaust

on the v6 note, I think SC's v6 vegetable did 12's on 10-11psi? (YouTube - V6 Vengeance 2) but regardless, the options are pretty much right i reckon.

- boosted 6, (not much more easy potential) - not epa friendly
- heavily worked 5 litre N/A (not much more easy potential) - not epa friendly
- boosted 5 litre (fair bit of potential) - not epa friendly
- or a bolt on ls1 (heaps of potential) - epa friendly... until you start using up that new potential


Also keep in mind costs of not just the motor, but making sure the gearbox/trans can handle the power, cost of a stall converter, diff, tuning etc...as it all adds up to more than the cost of building/transplanting a motor

[89 vn]

I think cost is the biggest issue not how its done, seems as tho the cheapest and best would prolly be the v6 turbo or the ls1 route.

[stocky]

^^ ls1 would be the most expensive route

[AirStrike]

I think cost is the biggest issue not how its done, seems as tho the cheapest and best would prolly be the v6 turbo or the ls1 route.

HAHAHAHA!!! V6 turbo would be the hardest way and a LS1 would be the most expensive.

[stocky]

agreed there. turbo is a fair bit of work unless you know what youre doing, and expensive if youre getting someone else to do it.
my sc14 setup would probably run a 13, and possibly a 12 if i did a bit more work on the engine, gearbox and diff. would probably cost you 2-3k to do it right.
ls1 youll need about 10k.
just get a 5 litre and work on that if youre only after a 12 second car.

[STEALTHY™]

Get yourself that 12 with a manual (with any of those motor combo's)

[vnv8driver]

if his cars already a v6 a sc14 kit with injectors, pumps, tune on top of an engine/transmission rebuild, lowering the compression in the motor a bit, he should be able to make a reliable 12 second car for just under 10 grand.

[stocky]

should be able to do the above for under 3

[VN_Luke]

I reckon if you know what you're doing, and can do most of the work yourself, you could turbo the v6 and get it to run an 11 for the "around $10k" mark
(starting with a stock v6 auto - presuming the engine is a-ok)

- 3000 for an eBay turbo kit with all the piping, oil lines etc you need
- 1000 sell the eBay crap turbo and buy a 2nd hand 35/40 or so
- 800 3" exhaust made up with dump pipe (including towing costs etc)
- 200 minispool diff, including oils, gasket etc
- 500 good injectors and a 2 bar MAP sensor
- 2000 get the auto strengthened to suit
- 500 2nd hand stall converer to suit
- 800 tune
- 200 tyres
- 1000 random bits and pieces, oils, clips, clamps, pipes, fittings, sealant, nuts and bolts and the odd tool or two

so that's 10k there - could probably spend a bit more/less depending on what you can do yourself or not etc..

but of course, as they say - you take the guesstimate and you double it, then you get close to how much it'll actually cost lol

[PREDATR]

I wouldnt bother with any SC14 supercharger kit for a V6 if u want to go fast. they are **** any only for people wanting a small boost from a V6.

[Reaper]

I would think a "not to wild" 5 litre would get 12's quite easily in a VN. Depending on how handy you are the biggest issue would be the inlet manifold.

My shopping list would be.
TTB manifold
10 - 10.5:1 compression
Mild head work & valves
Roller rockers
Cam (hydraulic should still be ok)
zorst
tune.

Reaper

[PREDATR]

Its alright having an engine that can run 12's but you need a driveline and traction that can do 12s as well. thats not cheap...

[savage1987]

mm I'm still keen on my LS1 six speed

[89 vn]

Yeah the LS route would be the most expensive i guess in a way:

LS2 6.2 litre $4850
MM6 L98 6 speed $2750 =7k for the parts

Can the LS2 fit into a VN like the way an LS1 does? ifso that seems like a potent setup especially if u can use an LS2 motor, they give 270kw isnt it?

oh and they LS's have ****loads of potential since that is stock? yeah if i could choose i would choose that

[savage1987]

Cheaper than that mate, I'm not looking for a crate motor, a second-hand one will do me fine. LS1 with manual six speed, do the majority of the work myself... shouldn't be anywhere near your typical drive in drive out price.

[greenfoam]

I'm agreeing with reaper, if you know what you're about the right cam and manifold will go a high 12 on the 5 litre in a manual and the manual will take it for a while/long time depending on your luck too that will be the best cheap semi legal way to get there. Turbo V6 also cheap if you know what you are doing, vengence went 11.8 and could have been done alot cheaper than it was, a healthy used motor will take 12 psi no problem but more troubles with the laws.

If you have the cash the ls1 is the only sensible way to go and with limited mods will go 11's and more legal than any other option, also a boosted 5 litre (turbo) will go 11's on mildish amounts of boost but totally un epa friendly.

There's also the RB30 option which could be done much more cheaply and somewhat less realiably than Luke has done it but you could go 12's on a scrap yard RB30 and chinese turbo no problem if you wanted to

If I was going to do this and had 5 grand I go in the order of
5 litre, diy..... or super budget RB30 conversion
A 286 type cam, home ported heads and home made or improved manifold has done high 12 in a manual 5 litre plenty times before, typically 12.8 <

If I had 10 grand I'd go
LS1
Bit less budget RB30 conversion

[Boonz]

you can build a tuff 355 for under 10 grand still

just gotta be spot on with the cam and stall converter choice if you go auto to go 12's cos you dont want it to be unstreetable if you go with a massive cam

traction is still the killer in a VN with solid rear end trust me and anyone with a bit of power going to the ground with a solid rear and stock wheel arches

[savage1987]

If an LS1 goes near the VN it'll be either:
a) getting some serious rear tyres and a VL Turbo rear end to fit more serious rear tyres ;
or b) not a VN any more and my VP Calais master plan has worked!!

Sam

[FusionX]

just gotta be spot on with the cam and stall converter choice if you go auto to go 12's cos you dont want it to be unstreetable if you go with a massive cam

How streetable it is will come down to the tune. Couple of mad 355's running over here (One in a VP doing 10.7's the other a VB running 10.9's both around 500hp). Both are driven on the street on weekends.

[feistl]

Well ill be the dick who says...

If you want a fast car, just buy a fast car. Honestly i hate saying it (as i would love to drop a LS2 into my VR wagon) but you can get a VX SS Gen3 Manual with low kays for like $16k these days. You can probably get your hands on a Gen3 Manual VT for like $12k...

Then your starting with a good base to handle big power... Theres no stuffing around or unexpected costs and its going to be easier to insure, register etc.

Otherwise, get your hands on a wrecked VZ SS and drop an LS2 in

[vnv8driver]

my mate was look at a wh statesman with 89000 on the clock, ls1 autp, leather, vgc, 14 grand with rwc.

[PaRaDoX]

on the v6 note, I think SC's v6 vegetable did 12's on 10-11psi? (YouTube - V6 Vengeance 2) but regardless, the options are pretty much right i reckon.

- boosted 6, (not much more easy potential) - not epa friendly
- heavily worked 5 litre N/A (not much more easy potential) - not epa friendly
- boosted 5 litre (fair bit of potential) - not epa friendly
- or a bolt on ls1 (heaps of potential) - epa friendly... until you start using up that new potential


Also keep in mind costs of not just the motor, but making sure the gearbox/trans can handle the power, cost of a stall converter, diff, tuning etc...as it all adds up to more than the cost of building/transplanting a motor

snap in rb30!

[VNV6VENGEANCE]

Well ill be the dick who says...

If you want a fast car, just buy a fast car. Honestly i hate saying it (as i would love to drop a LS2 into my VR wagon) but you can get a VX SS Gen3 Manual with low kays for like $16k these days. You can probably get your hands on a Gen3 Manual VT for like $12k...

Otherwise, get your hands on a wrecked VZ SS and drop an LS2 in

gen 3 manual vt is heavy, he wants a gen 3 in a lighter model. Hence giving him a better chance of getting to 12's. Personally im biased but go the turbo route. Everyone has v8's an turbo v6's raise a few eyebrows. plus petty aint cheap