brakes, and perhaps doing things i shouldnt

[cameron20020]

... alright i have a 1990 vn calais, no abs
anyway, what i want to do is give my car a basic form of ESP...
so the rear end doesnt slide out so much in the wet.

im good with the electronics and all, so thats not a prob, ill just set up a
pic, or something to take readings from an accelerometer, and put a stop
to certain wheels as necisary.

my problem is, im not all that smart on the working of braking systems,
would it be possible, and if so, how, would i individually trigger brakes on each
wheel to go off, in order to help me not go sideways as much

anyone got ideas?

... something tells me i may end up using an abs system or somthing

[jas98]

personally buy a car that has it fitted otherwise its gonna be a fun ride getting that fitted to a vn :P

[ephect]

just so you know.. abs and esp is totally different

abs is an anti-locking system so you dont skid when you apply the brake
esp is controlling how the system reacts to a situation

[Hillerus]

Maybe you could put some decent tires on it? And get the suspension re-bushed in the rear? Just a thought.........

I drove my SS in the wet today without any problems. Perhaps your driving style needs adjusting?

[cameron20020]

mayby, yes i know the difference between abs, tcs, and esc....
i was mainly going to be triggering the front wheels independantly to change the direction of the car when sliding,... like lets say im making a right turn and it slides out, the front left tyre would have braking applied to force the rear end back in....

was considering using abs aswell, because that would mean i'd have wheel rotation sensors, might be best for me to just wait and sell this in about a year or 2 then buy somthing with these features when i have the dough

[Pub247]

Maybe you could put some decent tires on it? And get the suspension re-bushed in the rear? Just a thought.........

I drove my SS in the wet today without any problems. Perhaps your driving style needs adjusting?

LOL i was thinking the same i never had any problems controlling my VP decent tyres would be more effective and maybe a defensive driving coarse

[cameron20020]

hmm i AM used to driving mums car, honda legend 97 model, which is front wheel drive... i probably SHOULD change my driving style....

but yeh i know the diff between abs, tcs, esp.... just thought i could use sensors from abs, the wheel rotation sensors to help me apply the use of esp...

just mainly wanted a way to apply the front left brake when im making a right turn, and the back end is slipping out, to force it back in, and also likewise for making a left turn...

though i probably will end up getting better tyres, and eventually a better car with these features

[Anthraxnz]

wider tyres say 225ish and Throttle Control lol. keep the back in line by limiting the amount of power being sent to the rear wheels.

listen to what the cars telling you, you can feel it through the steering, pedals and of course you arse! since its bolted to the floor

[ephect]

if your adement to get this up.. why not pop in to holden ask how technically it works, prolly wont be many there that will know how it works, but they may be able to point u in the rightr direction.

see if theres a tech page on it, see what sensors it uses n how it uses it, etc.. i think its wise to see how/what they use on all the cars nowadays.. u might be able to use parts from other manufacturers.

i'd be easier to get wider stickery tyres, lsd diff to get power to both wheels..

[Anthraxnz]

umm. traction control isnt something you can just build. from my understanding its rather complicated.

you would need to monitor G force, Yaw, steering position, power output, if its non LSD the power isnt going to be split evenly. so somehow your going to have to find a way to monitor the speed of each wheel individually. then when all the equations have been performed and befome TRUE then the brakes are applied to the wheel thats spinning.

well thats my understanding of how a TCS might operate.

[XLR8ing]

umm. traction control isnt something you can just build. from my understanding its rather complicated.

you would need to monitor G force, Yaw, steering position, power output, if its non LSD the power isnt going to be split evenly. so somehow your going to have to find a way to monitor the speed of each wheel individually. then when all the equations have been performed and befome TRUE then the brakes are applied to the wheel thats spinning.

well thats my understanding of how a TCS might operate.

Agreed. There are many calculations that take place in a proper TCS/ESP system. If its not calibrated properly it can cause more harm than good which is why they have engineers spending countless hours testing and fine tuning these systems.

As said above if you want better control over your car get some good tyres (a soft compound tyre maybe), and if you can afford it better suspension. Also remember that its a RWD car so take it easy in the wet if your not confident with it.
I used to drive a VN with a set of good tyres and never had any issues. Unless i purposely gave it a bit of throttle that is.

[Lost_Pete]

Neglecting the cost vs benefit equation and whether it is really practical to retro fit onto your car.

The basic traction control limits the power to the rear wheels so that you don't spin one wheel particularly in a corner. To do this you will need some means of monitoring the speed of each of the rear wheels. Front wheel sensor will be useful as well. ABS sensors maybe?

Ideally a steering wheel angle would be useful to determine which direction the car should be heading.

Some form of engine control is needed to reduce power. Retarding timing and cutting fuel would probably work.

If the sensors can be fitted then the microcontroller to determine if the rear wheel is spinning and cut power is relatively straight forward.

If you want to do the full stability control you will need a few more bits and lots more programming.

[padrickz88]

all seriousness.. like has been said
-check your suspension components, they are one of the things keeping you to the road...
-buy good tyre's, there worth the money..... my old tyre's i could spin the tyre's while moving..... the tyre's i have now make my car seem ****y lol
-why spend 1000's to make that happen? when you can spend 100's on driving course's that you can carry on to the next car you have?

[1991_Vn2nV]

..or learn how to drive the car

ESP is really not necessary. People have been driving for over 100 years without it, just drive the car to the conditions. After all, I don't see the V8 Supercars asking for ESP Or the stig

[VrWagz1]

I would definatly file that in the "to hard basket". You could weld tabs all around the wheels and setup a proxy switch as a counter. But thats all i can help you with.

[DavoVP]

Agree'd just drive to the conditions and the car, and apply a bit of throttle control, TBH in most newer cars i drive i make it a point to disable traction control esp etc, It takes the fun outa driveing.


Before i got this vp i drove a 04 astra, with TC on it was a very boreing sedate drive, once i turned it off the fun began Before that a Statesman, it came equipted with a switch for TC and ABS, i left abs on though, it did save my arse once when some twat decided to lockup infront on me in peak hour doing 60k because the yellow light wasnt green enuff for him.

[Holdfast]

... alright i have a 1990 vn calais, no abs
anyway, what i want to do is give my car a basic form of ESP...
so the rear end doesnt slide out so much in the wet.

im good with the electronics and all, so thats not a prob, ill just set up a
pic, or something to take readings from an accelerometer, and put a stop
to certain wheels as necisary.

my problem is, im not all that smart on the working of braking systems,
would it be possible, and if so, how, would i individually trigger brakes on each
wheel to go off, in order to help me not go sideways as much

anyone got ideas?

... something tells me i may end up using an abs system or somthing

cameron20020

I'd study for avery long time about how the braking system works so that you have not only reference material but an absolute vivid picture in your mind of what has to be done.

I'd visit wreckers to see the components and the tools I'd need.

Once, I've got all of that squared away, I'd re-do my math and electrics (which you are good at).

Then I'd work out how many hours it would take me to do the job plus the hours spent doing the study-up then I'd triple those hours and convert them to a dollar value before tax.

I'd then relate that to how much I earn.

I'd save that amount of money and get an expert to do the modification.

Having said that, that's what I'd do but there's nothing better or more self fullfilling than using your brain to produce safe and reliable outcomes that will not harm yourself or others.

Best of luck

[hjtrbo]

Whats wrong with sliding out in the wet. Quite fun I thought, as long as the cops don't get ya

[ucwepn]

I just got a 5 litre wagon so i know what you're getting at but, it has taken the car makers millions of dollars and a bloody hell of allot of man hours to get the most simplified versions of esp into their cars (a holden vs a BMW for example). alter your driving style and get decent rubber on the back (forget budget steel belted radials LOL) and go for a low profile wider tyre with a good name behind it.

Get your rear suspension looked at to, sounds suspect

[hjtrbo]

I would definatly file that in the "to hard basket". You could weld tabs all around the wheels and setup a proxy switch as a counter. But thats all i can help you with.

And add some 1 turn pots with a pendulem pressed on to the shaft for the g force feed back. Small mitsu PLC, some solenoids, and a small hydraulic pump teed into the brakes lines. Could be done Ha Ha

[89 vn]

ESP is hailed lately as a must have for all cars and its extremely complicated. Maybe not so now for the companies who have spent millions developing it but for average person from JC forums? LOL if you can make anything close to something like that at home your a ****ing genius and your wasting your time playing with VN's

[cameron20020]

alright.... i got some decent tyres
the car is HEAPS better now
i can actually control it now when it does go sideways (though i shouldnt in the first place)
but yep i really cant be ****ed with putting esp/abs/other stuff in my vn
ive gotten used to it, and its quite good

but yes as alot of you said, i just need skill and better types
the old tyres were retreads, and i had no skill in rwd... now is all good

[8rody]

call me old fashioned and arrogant, but isnt the "esp/abs/other stuff" designed for people who cant drive?

- Exemption to high class automotive race purpose built vehicles (etc).

[Cogez]

ESP is for people who can't drive, true.

But ABS is great! If you're on a wet road, and some clown pulls out of a concealed driveway, all you can do is slam on the brakes and hope for the best. ABS will stop you quickly and safely. If you don't have it, chances are you'll slide, and BOOM...car crashed.

This situation happened to me in Canberra City. Lime green Falcon pulled out a concealed (and clearly marked) No Standing zone. ABS stopped me plowing into the dude. So I drove round the guy, and yelled some well placed abuse. Then he put his lights on and pulled me over =P Moral of this story --> ABS gets you pulled over

[jas98]

ESP is for people who can't drive, true.

But ABS is great! If you're on a wet road, and some clown pulls out of a concealed driveway, all you can do is slam on the brakes and hope for the best. ABS will stop you quickly and safely. If you don't have it, chances are you'll slide, and BOOM...car crashed.

This situation happened to me in Canberra City. Lime green Falcon pulled out a concealed (and clearly marked) No Standing zone. ABS stopped me plowing into the dude. So I drove round the guy, and yelled some well placed abuse. Then he put his lights on and pulled me over =P Moral of this story --> ABS gets you pulled over

haha it was a cop? lol i bet he/she would have done the same if you pulled out in front of him/her while he/she was driving home etc.