Nasty habit... steering loose

[savage1987]

My VN has developed a nasty habit of drifting around on the road.. it'll randomly change direction, only slightly but enough to notice and it's a little disturbing at highway speeds. 500,000km and never had a front end rebuild.. I think it might be time. HOWEVER as I am not keeping the car for too much longer (replacing it with a VP Calais) I want to do as little as possible to solve the problem.
I have a spare low km steering rack in the shed now, just short of boots and rack ends.. planning to put this in with a PS fluid cooler and filter hooked up to the system. (Seems like too much work for an aborted project but I figure this can be transferred to VP Calais.)

Diagnostic tests: I had the front up on stands to put the 19s on, gave the wheels a bit of a jiggle... fair bit of play side to side (steering feels quite loose) and also a bit of north/south play.. top and bottom wiggling for want of a better expression

Any suggestions?
Sam

[88GreenVN]

My VN has developed a nasty habit of drifting around on the road.. it'll randomly change direction, only slightly but enough to notice and it's a little disturbing at highway speeds. 500,000km and never had a front end rebuild.. I think it might be time. HOWEVER as I am not keeping the car for too much longer (replacing it with a VP Calais) I want to do as little as possible to solve the problem.
I have a spare low km steering rack in the shed now, just short of boots and rack ends.. planning to put this in with a PS fluid cooler and filter hooked up to the system. (Seems like too much work for an aborted project but I figure this can be transferred to VP Calais.)

Diagnostic tests: I had the front up on stands to put the 19s on, gave the wheels a bit of a jiggle... fair bit of play side to side (steering feels quite loose) and also a bit of north/south play.. top and bottom wiggling for want of a better expression

Any suggestions?
Sam

The car wander is possibly the caster on the car. Thats the angle the strut leans forward or back. This only needs to be out a smidge and you have bump steer or wanering front end.

[greenfoam]

I know your looking at the front end and thinking it's loose and all that, but the cause of your VN drifting around on the highway will be the panhard rod bushes that holds the diff to the chasis sideways. The way to test to be sure is to push the car side to side at the rear wheel arch if you can see the body move sideways over the rear wheel the panhard bushes will be shot. And they typically all are on almost every VN that isn't looked after. The other day I drove behind several comodores in the AU and all of them were wobbling all over the road something shocking, you don't really notice until you are in a car that drives straight how bad most of them are. Anyway the rubbers are cheap and pretty easy to put in yourself if you lube them up first and makes a world of difference to the way an old VN drives

P.S get the original rubbers from Holden, Urathanes are a two pieace for the panhard rods and don't last long in this location

[89 vn]

My VN started being all skittish, feelin like crap and I needed new bushes and panhard rod, about the steering wheel mine actually did almost come out one day when i was driving a good tip: if you listen to music dont bash your hands on the wheel like your drumming might lead to death

[vnv8driver]

get your front shocks, inner steering arm and wheel alignment checked.

[greenfoam]

Once again, panhard rod BUSHES go get some

[vnv8driver]

Ive driven a car with rootd panhard rod bush's, the car was in no way fit to drive at the speed limit, it want a little bit of a sway, it would loose control if your not careful.

I know the 'swaying' hes talking about becasue ive had it in every commodore ive owned, its like the car steers itself left, right, left right... its the front suspension.

[vnv8driver]

I missed that bit-

Diagnostic tests: I had the front up on stands to put the 19s on, gave the wheels a bit of a jiggle... fair bit of play side to side (steering feels quite loose) tie rod ends

and also a bit of north/south play.. top and bottom wiggling for want of a better expression wheel bearings

[greenfoam]

Yeah but I had stuffed tie rods on my VN for 50,000ks and it was only the panhard bushes that made it drive crooked and need constant correction on the highway, it's like trying to drive at 200ks down a gravel track when you were just doing 100 on a good road , I fixed them and continued to drive straight as I liked on wobbly tie rods

[savage1987]

(Ready? MONSTER POST)

Thanks for all that guys, I'll get a few things checked out..

CASTOR
has been the same since last wheel alignment... adjustable strut tops make this a possibility although it's only really started happening latey (not caused by adjustment)

PANHARD ROD BUSHES
I changed these quite recently (2 months ago) for some Nolathane ones from the VR. I know Jason you've said the 2 piece aren't as good for this application, but these are almost new. I just went and checked them, pushed the car around.. it doesn't move much at all. I'd say there's no movement there. Good thinking though Jason, I'll keep that in mind for future.
By the way mate, "almost every VN that isn't looked after"? What are you trying to say?

FRONT SHOCKS
Should be 100%, they're Koni adjustables professionally installed brand new 2 years ago.

INNER STEERING ARM
Don't even know what that is but hopefully they'll look at it in the free suspension check I think I'll be getting

WHEEL ALIGNMENT
Done recently, surely it hasn't gone out from putting the 19s on.. pretty sure that doesn't change the alignment haha.. Yes, I triple checked the wheel nuts are done up tight, including after driving. Twice.

TIE ROD ENDS
Hopefully they'll be checked out when I get my free steering & suspension check... are these part of the steering rack?

WHEEL BEARINGS
Will get these checked out, they're only 2 years old though

Sam

[88GreenVN]

Has the ride height changed at the rear? Why I ask is that when I put extra thick spring rubber into the rears my car developed bump steer. Took em out and problem was gone.

Went and seen the alignment bloke and he confirmed it. Caster was the culprit (with the extra ride height)

[greenfoam]

Oh yeah, 19 inch rims wont be helping either, every little bit of slop shows up 100 times worse than 15's, did it happen to get much worse when the wheels went on?

[savage1987]

Rear is a tiny bit higher but not too much.
19s did make it far more noticeable, yes. It had 17s before.

I think I need to at least get this other steering rack in quickly before something lets go..

Sam

[vnv8driver]

all i was saying is that when i drove the car with little to no panhard rod bush's, it drifted, as in it drifted! and that was trying to keep it in a straight line at 6070km/h...

when this happened to my vp it was mainly the inner steering arm, if you unbolt the tierod ends the rod and all will pull straight out if its stuffed.

[88GreenVN]

Rear is a tiny bit higher but not too much.
19s did make it far more noticeable, yes. It had 17s before.

I think I need to at least get this other steering rack in quickly before something lets go..

Sam

It would only count if the back was now higher in relation to the front.

Like having air shocks in the 80's - Put an extra pound or 2 of air and raise the back of the car a bit. This can have a major effect on the car (carster can be way out).

[savage1987]

In that case no, it didn't change in relation to the front. Just the usual height jump you get from fitting 19s.. under an inch probably.

I'm still leaning towards steering.. you can feel hollow knocking through the wheel when driving over bumpy surfaces.. as in very hollow sloppy knocking around, as though there is far too much play in there somewhere.

Sam

[Fu Manchu]

mine is the same. I have spent years trying to work out what is happening.
With 17" clubbie rims the tyre just clears the mud flap (while turning the wheel). The same hollow knock is felt in the steering only from the right hand side. with the car up off the ground the right wheel can be moved left right with the same knock noise. I can feel it in the rack where the boot goes in. The panhard rod bushes look fine. The shocks are apparently fine and have been for 10 years of driving on roads that have made the head light fall out, the grill fall off, and the instrument cluster come loose, yet they say they are fine? It also sits at leagal low height.

[savage1987]

Still haven't had the steering and suspension checked out yet, have to organise it around work... the drifting around on the road is pretty bad but I've gotten used to it.

Doesn't mean I won't be getting it looked at though, don't want the front end to fall apart on me while I'm driving!!

Sam

[1trkmnd]

have you checked the ball joints?

[savage1987]

I don't know enough about front suspension to check the ball joints. I know what they are and where to find them, just not how to check them

[Boonz]

jack the car up so the front wheels are about 2 inches off the ground, use a lever bar under the wheel and push the bar up to lift the suspension up slightly, have someone else watching the ball joint for movement

[savage1987]

OK thanks I'll check that out when I get the chance

[savage1987]

Got a steering and suspension check today.. Pedders wanted $1700 all up for the work, however some was redundant so at the end of it all their quoted price was this:

Heavy Duty Linkpin Kit $75
4 bushes (not sure which ones) $112
Rear trailing arms $210
2 bushes $80
Fitting $400
Wheel alignment $66

Totalling $943

Thoughts?

My plan is to change over to my second hand rack and see if that fixes the problem.

They said I should firm up the front shocks a bit. I'd do this if I knew how to get them out (adjustable off-car, never taken front struts apart on the VN)

Thoughts?
Sam

[fnlow1]

I have a spare low km steering rack in the shed now, just short of boots and rack ends.. planning to put this in with a PS fluid cooler and filter hooked up to the system. (Seems like too much work for an aborted project but I figure this can be transferred to VP Calais.)


Any suggestions?
Sam

VP Calais needs a rack specific to models fitted with speed sensitive steering. Plenty of info around on commodore forums, just so ya dont get caught out.


Cant help with other problem, sorry. Oh but those pedders prices are steep... Super Pro Heavy duty link pins kit with bushes- $35 just a few weeks back.

[centy]

link pin kit i think stabiliser rods.
nolothane about $25 easy as to fit, just remember do not do them up tight.
Upper rear trailing arms you can get both for about $60 new.
Lower rear trailing arm, buy the bushes from holden for $22 each then take them off and go to a local mechanic farm engineering shop and get the old ones pushed out and new ones pushed in.
the other bushes well you need to know which ones.
you do not need a wheel alignment for changine the stabiliser rods.
other bushes are probably cheaper at holden anyway.
Diy with a little help and save $700.
to remove front shockies you have to compress the coil springs, undo the nut up top have the font up high as you can.
mark the position of the top plate in the body and remove the nuts.
wit the spring held compressed and the nuts undone you push the whole strut down till it clears the gaurd and swing it out.
take bearing plate off and then spring top plate and spring.
now cut the cable tie on the bottom of the boot and undo the large nut inside.
Now your strut is free.
there is meant to be about 30cc of oil in the bottom to for cooling.
Remember to mark were the top plate goes as it will afect wheel alignment if put back together differently.
This will be in your manaul.