Rediculously poor brakes

[Tom_1569]

It came up in conversation the other week that my brothers VN brakes arnt as good as the VT, no doubt there. Anyway I didnt take much notice but he got me to take it for a drive to feel the steering problem. I roll out the drive way, put my foot on the brake, she dont pull up. Foot near to the floor to get it to stop. Just rolling up to an intersection the foot goes right down, it was ****ing scary.

Anyway, If i put my foot hard on the brakes, then turn the car off, the pedal will drop a further couple of mm, not much but enough to notice, could this be a sign the booster or MC is stuffed?

He told me the brakes were at 65% when he got the car, which was 5 years ago
Ive ordered new front rotors + pads + wheel bearings, hopeing this is the only problem.

Ideas and opinions appreciated, except the opinion my brother is a ****ing retard for driving around for so long with crap brakes, I already Know this.

[88GreenVN]

I'd wack a s/h booster in if you are not getting a heath woosh sound from the booster.

The brakes on the 89 green sedan when I purchased it were like what you have discribed. It had new pads and rotors but you had to stand on the ankers to get it to stop.

$50 S/H booster and the brake while not super are more that good enough for normal city driving.

Also quality of pads can play a part too. $30 sets of pads are just not good enough in my book. Spend $60 odd and get the Bedix silicon (spelling) set - they are about right for every day driving and 1 or 2 big stops. You dont need Group A pads that take 3 big stops to start working

[Morton]

It's also possible that the brake lines are loaded with air. You should bleed the entire system with fresh fluid. I had a similar problem on my VQ when I first bought it, I had to put quite a bit of effort on the brake to keep the car stationary at lights. Bucketloads of air came out during the bleeding, and now she's fine

[VT-565]

Make sure the caliper pins are well lubricated, too.

[Tom_1569]

If i get a new booster will a need to bleed the system, sorry if thats a stupid question, im still learning. If thats the case then Ill get that and bleed + flush system all in one go, otherwise Ill try bleeding it first.

[88GreenVN]

If i get a new booster will a need to bleed the system, sorry if thats a stupid question, im still learning. If thats the case then Ill get that and bleed + flush system all in one go, otherwise Ill try bleeding it first.

No you just undo the M/C and lay to one side - leave the lines att.

The booster is the power assiting bit. So bleed the brakes first replace the rotos and pads and if you still have hard to push peddle - its the booster or the vac line..

[Tom_1569]

No you just undo the M/C and lay to one side - leave the lines att.

The booster is the power assiting bit. So bleed the brakes first replace the rotos and pads and if you still have hard to push peddle - its the booster or the vac line..

Ok sweet, is there a guide somewhere on how to flush the brake fluid and bleed it?

[Cheap6]

Something else specific to check in the booster-vacuum line circuit is that the one way valve and the seal that connects it to the booster is holding pressure. The brake pedal should be the same after the car has sat for a few minutes as it is when first switche off. The one way valve is the white or (grey?) plastic elbow piece that the hose attaches to.

I've also had the "**** $30 pads" syndrome too. Not only do they not stop, they don't last very long.

[Tom_1569]

Will check the one way valve.
Ill be using PBR pads, right now hes on a tight budget and need to get it resolved. Better pads can be added later. 65% 5 years ago, id imagine the pads are ****ed.

[Morton]

I'd be interested to see how much meat was left on those pads

[immortality]

does it squeel when braking? even if there was no meat left on the pads i still wouldn't expect that sort of pedal travel.

i'd start with a full flush and bleed of the system to see if the pedal improves

[Tom_1569]

I'd be interested to see how much meat was left on those pads

LOL, Me two, Ill chuck up some comparison photos when I pull them out. Oh and rotors are 2mm undersize and scorched (got rough lines all over the surface) to the **** house. He only noticed his brakes were bad after driving the VT the other day *shakes head*

does it squeel when braking? even if there was no meat left on the pads i still wouldn't expect that sort of pedal travel.

i'd start with a full flush and bleed of the system to see if the pedal improves

Doesnt squel, dont think its making enough contact to squel lol. Pads and rotors are on there way caus im already 100% certain they need doing, so if it doesnt firm up at all, ill flush the system ASAP.

[immortality]

LOL, Me two, Ill chuck up some comparison photos when I pull them out. Oh and rotors are 2mm undersize and scorched (got rough lines all over the surface) to the **** house. He only noticed his brakes were bad after driving the VT the other day *shakes head*.

sounds like metal on metal contact.

Doesnt squel, dont think its making enough contact to squel lol. Pads and rotors are on there way caus im already 100% certain they need doing, so if it doesnt firm up at all, ill flush the system ASAP.

certainly do those. it's the pedal travel thats worrying. even with good pads and rotors if the pedal drops to the floor you ain't gonna stop. once you have good fluid (without air bubbles) throughout the system you can diagnose any other problems

[VrWagz1]

Theres a how-to here somwhere i think for bleeding brakes as somone else here once used it but complained of a crap pedal after. What happened was appparently the how-to didnt metion to shut the bleed nipple as you lift the brake pedal back up, or better use a bottle and hose on the nipple. So he was sucking air back in when he lifted the pedal and got air in the calipers. A fairly obvious thing for anyone whos ever done it, but a small trap for young players. Just somthing to keep in mind if you never done it before.

I'd also be having a looksy at the calipers too, to make sure none of them are seized either.

[VT-565]

Make sure the caliper pins are well lubricated, too.

If the pads were worn right down, you'll probably have to check the pistons out on the calipers. I'm betting that they're close to seized.

[Tom_1569]

If the pads were worn right down, you'll probably have to check the pistons out on the calipers. I'm betting that they're close to seized.

How Do I check if there seized? Just apply the brakes with the caliper off and see if the piston comes out?

[88GreenVN]

I used a "G" clamp and a socket to get the pistons back into the calipers of the old VB I had.

[Tom_1569]

I used a "G" clamp and a socket to get the pistons back into the calipers of the old VB I had.

Yeah I use a g-clamp and an old pad normally to get the piston back in.
If its seized will it not more either way? I jsut assumed that it would be seized in?

[VT-565]

If the pistons spend too long out (if the pad does not get changed for a long time) you can get a lot of junk and corrosion (brake fluid absorbs moisture, this causes corrosion) building up in the piston bore.
Then you come along along and just force it back in, this damages the seals and can result in a fluid leak.
It really doesn't take much to pop the pistons out and clean the whole lot up, this will make it a lot easier and give you better brake operation in the long run. If the bores are really bad, you can use a cylinder hone to clean them up, but it's worth putting new piston seals on then.