help get vn started...
anyone wanna come over and help me get this vn started. think it just needs a fuel pump. not sure its getting fuel to the engine. everything is turning over just fine and im getting spark but no bang. mechanics arnt really my area and im willing to lend a hand in return for anything paint related seeing that im a spray painter. so if you need body work or things of that nature im your man... hit me up with some replies. thanks nate....
Banned
Can you hear the fuel pump at all? Turn it on accessories and go to the back of the car and try to hear it.Originally Posted by hi_ryder
If you can't hear it, it will need to be replaced, you can pick them up for $70-90 new, simply jack the right side up, get under the fuel tank and remove it.
EDIT: when you try to remove the fuel pump have a jerry can ready!
could it be a faulty fuse? and no i cant hear the fuel pump when the ignition is on. sucks cause there's like 20 litres of fuel in it. thought it would be better to have a veteran holden junkie here for the ride. im still learning.... ill have a go at it anyway. also the engine and full loom are from a 89 calais v6 and the body is a 92 vp lexen. will that make a difference? or are the vn vp fuel pumps the same. thanks
Banned
Yes it could be the fuse, check it also.
Almost not here!
Some times a good thump on the tank will get a few more pumps out of the old girl.
White 05 V6 VZ Executive - Thrashed Ex Telstra car
and 3 Dangerous non ABS VN's
The presence of anti-theft systems in both those vehicle models jumps out to me when you mention that. They are similar but there might be enough difference to cause a problem. As a simple check, you should have a Check Engine Light come on with the ignition 'on', car 'off'. You might also try switching the anti-theft switch in the passenger 'A' pillar to 'off'.
The fuel pump should run for 2 seconds when the ignition is turned on and then turn off unless the engine is turning. The ECM switches the relay. You might try bridging the switched (87 and 30) terminals for the fuel pump to bypass the ECM as a check of the pump.
Something else I have experienced is swapping (connecting incorrectly) the fuel pressure and return hoses at the fuel rail.
boosted!
i might be intrestedif you want to spray a front bumper for me im sure i can get a VN going infact i have a spare fuel pump too :P
give me a buzz on 0423-017-619 (Gordon) if you still need help
89 loom and 91 loom are diffrent (LN4 has a diffrent loom to the EV6) plugs at the fuse box are diffrent, but thats about it...
easiest way is to pull the fuel line off at the firewall and turn to reds, when the fuel pump primes fuel should come out, if not then its the pump...
thanks Gordon, had fun and my bald head got burnt. heres my work address. Albert Auto body repairs 390 victoria st brunswick 3056. its between jims automatic transmitions and a taxi cab depot, cant miss it. holler back...
the lexcen didnt have the anti theft lock barrel in the pass side door jamb. gordon a i did some trial and error tinkering. turns out theres no power getting to the fuel relay fuse under the hood so its not the fuel pump. i have 2 ecu's and both didnt make a diffrence. engine turns over and sparks still but it does that even with the ecu disconnected. i might just have to call up a auto electrician and have some proper tests. mabe both computers are fried. i might plug one into my vp and see if it fires up and then ill know for sure...
did you fit the bcm and overide lock when you fitted the calais wiring?
the bcm stops the pump.
whats the overide lock look like? the bcm is the hand sized black box and yes it is plugged in cause i plan to run the power windows.
my vp calais has the on off lock barrel located in the passenger side front door jamb to shut off the remote alarm. is this the overide lock your talking about? cause i dot remember seeing one on donor car i stripped but it did have that extra horn on the left shock tower for factory alarm. this car was on lpg. would it have been disabled or modified because of the duel fuel? i took like 15 pics of the donor car the day i stripped it. heres 1
it is on gas now.
was the donor vehicle also gas?
did you use the chip from the donor vehicle?
did you use the wiring harness from the donor vehicle.
i ask this cause gas has modded chip and lots of cut wiring and extra relays.
you are probably gunna have to get a custom chip to run the series 1 vn engine on the gas setup. i had a play with gas recently and found it needed a larger fuse to, to stop it blowing.
My money is on the gas wiring being wrong.
boosted!
another thing to note is the car would not go into self diag mode, it also did not have the "immobiliser override" key switch
i also noticed there was power to the EFI relay but no trigger signal when cranking,
i doubt its the ecu, or the fuel pump.
Symptoms:
Fuel pump not priming
wont go into self diag mode
my local wreckers has tons of calais's if you still cant get it fixed by next weekend i might bring you a present, see if i can find one
boosted!
it shouldnt have a modified memcal, the gas should have its own box which is wired into it,
and it should go into self diag mode anyway...
Last edited by PaRaDoX; 01-12-2008 at 10:11 AM.
yes gas has its own wiring but also has a chip change to to suit the gas.
the vp i have been playing with on gas does not do diags either but when connected with a aldl cable gives faults.
the vn ecu would not have the right program for gas and the vp ecu will not run a series 1 all that well.
boosted!
when they install lpg they don't alter the ecu, and i've run many chips from a vp in a vn and like wise, they'res hardly any changes, i used a VN binary on when i made my 2bar tune and i swapped from the series 1 motor to a vp series 2 motor and it ran perfectly
like i said in another thread, all thats diffrent are the injectors (same flow rate) cam (slightly) balance shaft (no impact on tune) balancer (no impact on tune) and coils which have no impact either, oh yeah and it has a bell mouth.
when LPG is activated to run they usually cut power to the fuel pump but the wiring has been reconnected where it was cut for the fuel pump switch, ultimately a wire is cut, pinched or crossed somewhere
i still think it would be easier to start with a new loom rather than pulling your hair out over a butchered one. ill see what i can do for you
This is really stretching the memory (mine) but the over ride switch for VN Calais should be in the glove box towards the top, to the right of the latch near the glovebox light switch. The VN didn't have a BCM as such but the anti-theft module should be in the same location as it is in VP Commodores; under the dash, above the glove box, and it is a palm sized black plastic box. If you have a CEL with the ignition 'on', the anti-theft is disabled. You won't get the self diagnostics if it is active because it cuts power to the ECM. Try C16 and B1 as the power terminals. The rightmost fusible link under the bonnet is the source (on VP it is labelled 'EFI' but might be 'Engine').
If the donor car had an LPG memcal (from VP -), the fuel pump and injectors will be switched off, after an initial prime, with the LPG switch activated. There is a single terminal on the ECM that has power applied or removed to switch the memcal between the fuels.
Which terminal it is and on which fuel it has power applied and on which it is removed, I don't know off the top of my head, but I've posted about it on here before so I'll find that and post an edit if it's required. Swapping in the memcal (+/or ECM if you like) from the VP Calais should have eliminated that as the problem and the presence of the switch to cut the fuel pump would suggest that it wasn't used anyway.
The ECM only controls the fuel pump relay on the switched side and it doesn't explain why the fuel pump fuse doesn't have power to it. It depends how (where) the harness was split to swap it over from the donor car to the new but there is at least one pair of white plastic plugs behind the LHS kick panel near the ECM that if not connected will disable the fuel pump (and a few other things).
Last edited by Cheap6; 01-12-2008 at 02:24 PM.
boosted!
cheap6, it still dosnt explain why theres no main power to the relay for the fuel pump, theres should be a signal wire and a constant power (to the battery) keep in mind ive pulled the fuel pump rellay while the motors on before and the car has kept on running
Last edited by PaRaDoX; 01-12-2008 at 04:09 PM.
ƃuoɹʍ ʇsnɾ sı sıɥʇ
if it's got a gas loom in it, chances are it has been cut to stop the injectors firing when it's switched over to gas......
mayyyyyyybe, just maybe, it also has a cut for the fuel pump so you don't burn it out by running around on an empty tank of fuel while using LPG.
... now get out that test light.
You are right, it wouldn't. I am not clear on whether you did not have switched power (the 87 and 30 side) or switching power (signal if you like; the 85 and 86 side - earthed by the ECM). Or neither?
If the fuse had power to it, the 87 and 30 side would also have had power to it (on 87, I think). If it did, the oil pressure switch should also have power and would keep the engine running with the relay removed.
Bridging the 87 and 30 terminals to the fuel pump relay and confirming fuel pump operation would check the fuel pump, fuel pump fuse and wiring to and from the fuel pump and fuel pump relay, switched side. Nothing from that?
Did you try a test light across the 85 and 86 terminals when the ignition is first switched on? If that doesn't/didn't work, try the test light from the battery positive to the earth side switching relay terminal. That would tell you if the ECM is trying to switch the fuel pump relay even if there is no power to the switching side of the relay.
If neither the switched or switching side has power, some of the relays use the same power source looped around under the relay connector to provide power to both sides of the relay. That might be a clue.
I think that the power wire for the fuel pump relay should run under the relay connectors back to the bus bar and the fusible links (which are those between the battery and the relays, under the bonnet). It shouldn't be difficult to find as if that is the case, the wire will only be ~300-400mm long.
Another thing to check is that one of the fusible links was deleted in later models (late VN-). I am not sure how the bus bar is set up for the fusible links but it is possible that the most extreme right (viewed from the front of the car) of the fusible links is now sitting unpowered or the engine harness is connected to an empty fusible link socket.
The ECM should still go into diagnostic mode and also display the CEL (unless it is powered from the same fusible link as the fuel pump relay).
Donating Member
Wow most of that went straight over my head
If you want some pics i can take some of my 89 calais loom and show you the module and the wires that should hooked up ( they're actually right next to the boot release button
thanks for all the help guys, and thanks gordon (PaRaDoX). it was the anti theft lockout, i ripped the wires out of the lock barrel and bridged them and now the fuel pump chirping like a canary. im going bolt it back up and see it it runs. i love this website.... beers are on me tonight...Wow most of that went straight over my head
If you want some pics i can take some of my 89 calais loom and show you the module and the wires that should hooked up ( they're actually right next to the boot release button
started first kick no problems, and with the exhaust not connected sounds mean lol. im wrapped, car hasent been fired in 6 months but you wouldnt know it from how it kicked over. ill post up new pics this weekend of the project. thanks again....
Posting Permissions
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote