changing a vn v8 dizzy?

[vn nut]

sorry to the peeps that dont like multiple thread starters lol but whats the best way to go about changing a dizzy in a vn 5.0
cheers

[VrWagz1]

Have a look in the howto's i think theres one there, not 100% though

[vn nut]

na theres not a just gona give it my best shot n hope for the best how would i go about doing the timing or would i just try to put the new dizzy in exactly the same way if possible theres gota be someone here thats done this before a

[Morton]

1) turn the crank until the motor is at TDC, and the rotor button is pointing to Cyl1
2) remove the dizzy cap, leave the 8 spark leads on - it's easier
2b) remove the rotor button
3) undo the 14mm clamp bolt on the left of the dizzy
4) remove the bolt and clamp, don't drop any bits
5) start working on the dizzy
- you'll find if the dizzy is quite old and tight, you may have to wiggle it for some time. I found it easiest to get a small cold chisel and jam then end of it under the dizzy flange, then use it as a lever to get some movement in there. Then twist a bit, wiggle a bit, and repeat, slowly using larger objects to jam in there and lever up with. You'll find this all much easier with the bonnet off.
6) with the new dizzy in your hand, line up the oil drain hole with the slide-pin on the shaft
7) insert the new dizzy, lined up in much the same way as the old one came out (keep in mind where the HES plug sat, and where the rotor button pointed to after removal)
7b) you will notice as you removed the old dizzy, the rotor button moved counter-clockwise roughly 20 degrees. Try and anticipate this movement, and set the rotor shaft so that it moves back to the standard position as you insert the new dizzy
8) once the dizzy is firmly in place, replace the dizzy clamp but don't tighten it up fully
9) replace everything else you pulled off
10) short the diagnostic plug under the dashboard on the passenger side
11) plug in your timing light to Cyl1
12) mark the crank knotch with white chalk
13) start the car up, and observe the timing. Adjust as needed.
14) tighten dizzy clamp

NOTE: Don't try and eyeball the timing. You'll be miles off, I guarantee it

And you're done

[vn nut]

thanx morton a man
just a couple of things sorry bout all the questions as iam just starin to work on my own cars

alrighty
whats tdc
whats the crank notch
and what do ya mean when you say short the diagnostic thing
u mean do the paper clip thingy lol
and so you dont have to take off the inlet manifold to get to the dizzy?

[VrWagz1]

tdc = top dead center, which means piston 1 at the top of the chamber
crank notch= i think he maybe means the timing mark notch, just so you can see it clearly.
and yes the paper clip thingy
dont know about the inlet manifold. But if you got the time, it will probably make life alot easier, but more work too.

[vn nut]

sweet i get it all now except the paper clip thingy haha love that expression y would i need to do that while im changing my dizzy?

[Morton]

Shorting the diagnostic plug is how you set the timing on a V8. You have to put the computer in diagnostic mode, so that it reverts to static timing, without adjusting for idle. The computer would have the car running 20deg spark advance at idle, so if you set the timing to 10deg advance without the diagnostic plug shorted, you would actually end up with 0deg advance (or 10deg retard?) base timing, which would run like a pig.

Just be careful when putting it all back together, making sure it's exactly the way it all came out. If you run the car with too much advance or the dizzy in the wrong position or the cap reversed, you can break a lot of expensive parts very quickly

[vn nut]

haha i cant even get the bloody thing out a tried everything gona get me mechanic to do it unfortunately hes only chargin me a hundred bucks and i think thatll save me a lot of heartache
thanx heaps any way guys been really helpfull

[Morton]

Haha no worries mate, shame you couldn't get it out. They tend to be in there nice and tight Unfortunately it's a bit of a bitchy job for a beginner mechanic.

You should've attacked it with some rope

[vn nut]

hahah yeah ill try it haha i even made a home made slide hammer still wouldnt budge ill go spray some more inox and **** in there and give the rope a go a
thanx for another idea lol

[vn nut]

and another thing coz there so hard to get out how do ya get the lil bugger seated properly without doing damage to it?

[vn nut]

and one more thing y do ya have to get motor top dead centre with the rotor button facing to cylinder 1 why cant you just put the dizzy in the way you got it out ?

[VrWagz1]

I spose you possibly could, for the quick job it is, it just gives you a reference point to work from if need be. That way theres no second guessng wether it was pointing at #4,8,5 or somthing later on when you forget where it was.

[vn nut]

well peoples got me dizzy out after about 5 hours of trying oh my god so hard i dont think its ever been changed since its come off the factory floor any way got the new one in hooked everything back up and was feeling really good about myself

kicked it over and guess what exactly the same im absolutely gutted i just dont have a clue anymore a

its still coming up coolant temperature voltage too low
has anyone had one of these things go and where is it located

but somethings tellin me that wouldnt stop me from getn spark
and the auto electrician from holden told me some people bridge em too getem to go harder coz its pourin more fuel

any ideas people?????????????

[Blown V6 Hatch]

What have you repleced?? Did you have it diagnosed or just take a guess at the dizzy being the problem??

So, it's just not getting spark?

[vn nut]

got a brand new dizzy new coil and changed ignition module
yeah no spark no broom broom sux man a
im gona change the coolant temp sensor but i know its not that well not know pretty sure but
other wise i dont have a clue if its a short where to start lookin
strange happened so quick was driving pulled up at the lights then i wasnt driving i was pushin lol

[VrWagz1]

You can atleast take some comfort in the fact you never paid a mechanic to not fix it, it was just your time used up. You've saved atleast a few hundred in labour already.

Temp sensor just screws out. Its on the front of the inlet manifold under the throttle body. Theres 2 there, one for the dash(single wire unit) and the one you want for the ecu (has a few wires on it). You will leak a bit of coolant when you do this too.

As for you spark issue maybe double check the dizzy is all plugged in properly, were you confident that the new dfi module you got was a good working unit.
Its starting to get to the point, of checking alll the plugs and connectors for good pin connections and change ecu.

Now i've just had a look at this drawing http://www.memcals.com/pdf/VN_V8%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf to see if i can see anything else. You'll see the dizzy hall sensor and dfi modual towards the bottom of this schematic and at the top left you will see the EFI relay and a 30A fuse feeding it, if you follow it you can see it seems to feed 12v to the red wire on the primary of the coil. Have you checked to see if there is 12v on this wire with the ignition on. If not then it may just be a simply relay has burned out or the fuse is blown. Im not sure but you may be able to swap the relay with the high beam of somthing to test it out. See how ya go.

[vn nut]

yeah i checked it with a test light no light come on but im not sure if thats suitable i dont have a led or a voltage meter anyone know how much they cost
o and i changed n stuffed around with all the relays fuses n stuff so pretty confident its not one of them if it is a short i just dont know how it could go so suddenly maybe if i was stuffin around with wires before hand or one got burnt or sumfn i dont know a

really dissapointed its been a very reliable car for so many years

[vn nut]

do u think the sensor could cause the spark issue?

[VrWagz1]

yeah i checked it with a test light no light come on

really dissapointed its been a very reliable car for so many years

Test light is fine. It should have come on if you had the ignition on. If not then there is no power on the primary or your coil, and therefor no spark. You may have found your problem.

No i dont think the coolant sensor would stop spark. actually im 99.9% sure. It will affect the cars performance, but it wont stop it.

[vn nut]

what so you reckn the wires running to the coil?
how would you fix that replace the wires in the harness or sumfn?
sounds fun

[VrWagz1]

If theres no power at the coil, i would test at the relay to see if you getting power out of it. I very much doubt its a broken wire in the harness.
You can do this test to confirm if thats your problem first though before you go any further
- grab some insulated wire and run it from the battery + terminal to the coil + primary terminal. Think it was red from memory of that drawing (edit: yep RED).
- the coil will now be powered and you should be able to crank the car to see if it starts

[vn nut]

yeah wags ill try it i went over like every bit of the cars wiring couldnt see a thing
but one thing i did notice i was checkin the relays in the engine bay with reds on took the efi one out and only one of the four connections to the relay lit up the test light same as the start relay whilst when i did the same thing to the horn lo beams and h beams etc
2 of the connections lit up the light ?

[VrWagz1]

There should be 2 connections on the efi relay lighting up too. one of them should be the power from the ignition to power the relay coil, and the other is the power that comes from that 30A fuse on that schematic that is fed directly from the battery.

Inside is fuse 9 ok, as that will stop power from the ignition reaching the efi relay

Also when you took the efi realy out, did it make a "click" at all, as it should have been on, and as you pulled it out it should have dropped off. The same when it went back in it should have clicked back ON then, thats if all is ok with it

I'll elaborate on the schematic a bit for you.
The 2 wires that should have power on the EFI relay(in the top left hand corner of the schematic) is the RB and PB wires.
The RB if you follow it simply comes from the battery through a 30A fuse. Providing that fuse if ok you should see power on that terminal at the relay constantly with the car on or off. That could be a little test to see which wire has the power on it. Because if the ignition is off the other PB wire should not have power on it and the RB should still have it.

If you follow the PB wire back, you will see it comes from the ignition barrel and through fuse 9. The ignition barrel is fed by the "R" wire on the other side of it which you will notice comes from the battery through a 60A fuse. The ignition barrel should feed power from the R wire to the PB wire when the "red's" are on
And just FYI, The other wire "V" goes to the start relay, which only gets powered when you turn the key to the start position.