Vs commodore nightmare

[luvmycommodores]

Hello Fellow Commodore lovers.
I just paid someone 2025.00 for a 1996 VS commodore tonight.
Had to drive it from merrylands to hurstville and it never made it home.
Hoping someone out there can give me some clues as to what happened .. Ive got
a bad feeling it might be siezed.

symptoms.
When I first took it for a test drive it all seemed ok.
The only thing I noticed was that it sounded loud like reving to high but the taco was only in between 0 and 1. It kinda felt that it was vibrating more than it should but ran ok.
Then half way home it started making a sound like when an engine looses connection with a spark plug lead, so it felt like I was running on 5 instead of 6 then it detriorated over the next few ks to 4 and 3 then it sounded like it was only running on 2 cylinders. Then it stopped. the temp wasnt high but when I got out of the car i noticed water was pissing out from the bottom of the somewhere. The engine light went on also just before it konked out..... tried to start it but just gave a little grunt and stopped... do you think its siezed.... worst feeling ever being ripped of 2000 gran...

[bandit10]

guessing its a V6 at that price, try pouring water over the crank angle sensor, if its on its way out they can cut out when they get hot and cause problems.

Read your error codes and this will tell you what was logged as a fault when the engine warning light came on. Checking error codes VR/VS (Revised)

If its got oil in it i doubt it has seized, does sound like you have a cooling problem though.

[Brett_jjj]

Jeez mate ,what a prick of a thing to happen when youve just bought it.All I can suggest is checking where the water was coming from,doing an error code check to see if it gives any clues,and check the plugs,leads and the coils etc.Also the DFI (Direct Fire Injection) module under the coils can sometimes (rarely though) cause problems.The Crank Angle Sensor (CAS) can also cause the engine to stop and then 10 minutes later starts again.Check the battery is fully charged.Let us know how you go.Im sure other people on here will think of more stuff for you to check out also.

[luvmycommodores]

could a bung CAS cause the symptoms I described above???

[luvmycommodores]

please someone give me feed back.. can a BUNG CAS cause the symptoms i described???

[bandit10]

i would say yes possibly, but im sure others would say no

You need to check your error codes, that will help you diagnose the problem.

[Brett_jjj]

As I mentioned above,the CAS can cause the engine to just stop dead.Sometimes they will just go again out of the blue,usually once they have cooled down a bit.In saying that, the CAS can also stuff up and the engine wont go again until the CAS is replaced.

[simmons001]

Failed water pump? Zero water in the engine, thus the lack of temp reading?

It does sound more mechanical than electrical to me, but I shall keep my fingers crossed.

[ORIXVywags]

So did you get it home or not, I have heard this happening before, but never heard what the cause was,

whats the kms
was there any other noises when running it
was the thermo fan constantly on when trying to drive it home
have you done and error check

I live in Hurstville Grove, so not far away, and Im keen to see what happens

Mate of mine just go a Super 6 Stato and it recently notices it has been drinkin all the water, but the temp stays normal, so keen to make sure this doesnt happen

[bns 454]

temp sensor is high on the manifold so if uve lost water it wont read from what uve written its sounds cooked u may be able to start it again cold but if it dropped cyls like u say cheapest options to swap out the engine it will never be the same again and give you trouble

[luvmycommodores]

you are spot on bns... just confirmed it tonight... totaly cooked... it cranked over for 15 seconds and it sounded really load and just grinded to a helpless hault ... my mate checked the oil stick and the oil looked ok .. then we opened the oil cap and there it was muddy thick gunk.. my mates theory is that the engine has been so badly treated that oil flow had been compromised for a long time.. the oil filter is probably so clogged nothing was flowing through..because when i took it for a test run i did noticed the car was sounding like it was reving high and very loud and i thought maybe VS motors are higher in compresion than my old VN.. but it must have been the poor motor just choking and grinding and causing the whole car to feel like it was vibrating...anyways im going to bite the bullet with my initial loss of a good 2000 bucks and look out for a recon VS motor and attempt to replace it. I would be very appreciative for any guidance and advice as I embark on this project. The 1st stage is to find a good recondition VS engine...any idea how much should I be looking at for a recon motor??

[wortus]

The 1st stage is to find a good recondition VS engine...any idea how much should I be looking at for a recon motor??[/QUOTE]

I'd probably suggest getting hold of a good 2nd hand engine from a wreckers, they usually come with a warranty and have been compression tested etc. If your in Hurstvile, Sydney you can't go past Commwreck at Condell Park they have heaps of stuff for the older Commodores and in my experience are very reasonable with their prices. While the new motor is out it may be a good idea to replace the welch plugs as well.

[luvmycommodores]

just been told by the wreckers he would sell me a VT engine for 500 bucks ... will a VT engine fit into my VS commodore with no incompatability problems??

[SMURFTEC.]

same v6 engine mate, im pretty sure it'll just drop right in!

[ORIXVywags]

$500 buck for a VT engine is good, make sure you know the km's on it, I know a bloke got jyped for VY motor for his Hilux, bought it off some dodgy wrecker just off Canterbury Road, Punchbowl

and he was told it came out a S pack with 150000kms, but it must of a had 350000kms, it was absolute dog, and only recently dropped 2 pistons

what Wreckers you got too,

Commwreck is great, they all love commodores and know what they are talking about, Been for walk in out the back ages ago, great fun

[bns 454]

that really sucks you got ripped off but wreckers engines are fairly cheap $300/$500 is it an ecotec (plastic cover/airflow meter)or 3800. when buying an engine try to go for the lowest ks u can genrally problems start at 300 000ks so try for somthing round 200 if u can. pull oil fillercap and have a look at the rockers if there covered in black sludge(lack of servicing)black flakey oil is genraly due to excessive heat and if its milky run away. your looking for idealy a goldish colour with minimal sludge and check for severe corrorsion on the thermostat housing due to not useing coolant dont just trust that the ks are correct. hope this helps you dont want to be burned again

[luvmycommodores]

thanks BNS and ORIX.. I will take your advice and check all those things. I am buying it from I think a reputable wrecker.. RIVERSIDE spare in chipping norton. I cant wait to start. Picking it up on Sta morn and will start taking the old engine out.. probably take most of sat to take out the old engine?? I am a novice but my mate knows his cars and is an ex mechanic/towie and use to work at wreckers... I'm hoping by the end of it I'll have a descent running car for 3 gran.. haha also got ripped of with the rego.. the person was registered the car as a pensioner which means i got pay the rego + the transfer fee...oh well its done now.. must make it worthwhile by giving the car a few more years of life... I'll take some photos on the weekend to show you the before and after..

[wortus]

If your getting the VT motor just make sure it bolts straight up to the VS transmission, it probably will but you need to check.
Also is the sump exactly the same?
I think there may be slight differences in the fuel rails and the inlet manifold but nothing you should not be able to work around. Most wreckers just cut all the hoses and on a VT I think the fuel hoses are part of the fuel rails, your VS fuel rails may bolt straight onto the VT motor if need be?
You will probably also need to use the VS exhaust manifolds?
Are you getting the whole motor, power steering pump, alternator etc or just the bare bones?

[spacattack]

just be a little careful of the VT V6's mate, the VT's where the heaviest commodores ( comming in at about 1750kg i think it was ) where as the VS was 1350kg, so the VT motor has had to lug around more weight, but as said previously just look for the low k's motors an you'll be fine ( i recently picked up for a mate a VX V6 motor with auto, loom, all add ons with 107,000'ks on it for $200 lol ) so the cheapies are out there, just have to look around

[combatantsomeone]

There are a load of TINY differences between VT and VS motors, found this out when doing the same thing to my brothers car. Mainly gaskets and also the accessory belt/tensioner are different and i think theres some thing on the intake manfiold near the throttlebody thats different

[bigwood18]

as combatantsomeone said there is heaps of little differences and im pretty sure the intake manifold is one of them my vs calais has a vt motor in it

[chrisdoesitbetter]

as combatantsomeone said there is heaps of little differences and im pretty sure the intake manifold is one of them my vs calais has a vt motor in it

when swapping an ecotec from a vt to vs, is it just as simple as putting the new engine in and plugging everything in or do you need to change the looms etc.?

[luvmycommodores]

Set to go - Buying a VT engine (bare bones only) and attempting to fit into a VS (This Saturday)

I have compiled a list of things to be mindful of thanks to all you guys:

Find good second hand engine.
Make sure it comes with a warranty and have been compression tested.
Lower milliage the better
Have a look at the rockers for black sludge - means (lack of servicing)
Black flaky oil or if milky run away generally due to excessive heat - ideal a goldish colour with minimal sludge
Check for severe corrosion on the thermostat housing due to not using coolant - don't just trust the low ks.
Make sure VT motor bolts straight up to the VS transmission
Check if the sump is the same
Maybe slight differences in the fuel rails and the inlet manifold
VS fuel rails may bolt straight onto the VT motor if need be
Probably also need to use the VS exhaust manifolds?
Be mindful that VT V6's are around 1750kg where as the VS was 1350kg - so the VT motor has had to lug around more weight
Possible difference between VT and VS motors -Mainly gaskets, accessory belt / tensioner, intake manifold near the throttle body

Whilst Engine is Out
May be a good idea to replace the welsh plugs as well whilst at it
check electrical once over (multimetre)
Replace rear main seal
Replace exhaust gaskets - (steel kind)
Check / Replace engine mounts
5 litter oil




Thanks for all the advice guys.

[spacattack]

Concerns:
Will I hit a point where I will need a Special tool for the job? Maybe a multimeter to do a run over of the electrical once its in
Mate is arranging a the device to lift engine in / out. its called an engine crane
Will existing VS other parts fit on the VT engine? i dont think theres any difference between the VS and VT P/S pump, and alternator, not sure about that one thou
Gaskets? Can I buy the whole kit of what I'll need? and if they don't quite match can I reshape them by cutting them? dont cut gaskets, while the motors out thou buy a rear main seal ( steel kind not OEM, V6's have a tendancy to blow rear mains, may as well get it replaced while the motors out, only extra gaskets you should need is the exhaust gaskets, everything else should be just plug n play, again while the motors out check your engine mounts, easier to replace them while the motors out than to replace them later
How much oil should I have ready? 5 to 10 Litters? as much as the engine carries (4.2ltr from memory, reguardless thou the wreckers should have already oiled down the motor for storage, depending on the wreckers they will drain it, flush it, and put semi syn oil in for you
Do I just leave the gear box alone (auto) you can, but if you can find a VT auto it would be better ( the 4L60E in the VS has a plastic piston, after a while they flog out, they fixed this in the VT by using a metal piston, in turn making them a little stronger )

Thanks for all the advice guys.

[luvmycommodores]

Thanks Spac
lol to the "engine crane"... thanks man! I was gonna call it "hoisty thingy"
check electrical (multimetre)
rear main seal
exhaust gaskets
check engine mounts
im gonna go with the existing gear box hope that plastic thingy is ok still,cant afford a gear box change too right now..lol