VS V6 auto sedan, cranks but won't start.

[Mick131]

I've got an intermittent start problem, engine cranks but won't fire. It first happened a couple of weeks ago, then it's been fine until last week. My wife was in town, car wouldn't go, she rang the RACT, the bloke had a look, banged the tank, the car started and he said to get a new fuel pump. It happened again yesterday, I was in the car this time, leaving a set of traffic lights it just died, banged tank etc. no difference. I walked home, but before I got home my wife rang saying the car was going again and she picked me up. We jumped into my car, I ran her in to town, came home and replaced the fuel pump. I dismantled the old one and couldn't find any reason why it wouldn't work. Went to start the car this morning, same problem, fuel pump was running, cranking but no start, the fan was running, then stopped, I turned the key and the engine started. Each time it does it the radiator fan starts running (air con off), even if the engine is cold. I've done some reading through the forum and it appears that this is not an uncommon problem, but haven't found a solution yet. I've read the section on error codes, checked it this afternoon, but all I get back is 12, system OK, no faults logged. The error code thread said with pins 5 & 6 shorted and the ignition on the fan should run, it didn't. I'm at a loss as to where to go from here. I haven't checked to see if there is spark when the problem arises, but that still wouldn't fix the problem.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Cheers,
Mick.

[Brett_jjj]

It could be the CAS (Crank Angle Sensor) is on its way out.It can cause similar problems to what you have described.

[maldotcom2]

Yeah probaby CAS. Same thing happened to me. Eventually diagnosed by NRMA as a faulty CAS. Check for injector pulse (multimeter) and spark when the problem occurs.

[Mick131]

Thanks for the responses, my wife rang me this morning saying it had done it again, cranking, no firing, radiator fan on. I told her to leave the ignition on for a while, after about a minute the fan turned off, I told her to try starting the car and it went. Is it worth fitting a second hand CAS or should I bight the bullet and buy a new one? I've already replaced a fuel pump that didn't need it so I'm hesitant to fault find by replacement, it can get a bit expensive. Is there any way I can test the CAS or prove that it's the problem?

Cheers,

Mick.

[Mick131]

Ok, I've bought a replacement CAS. Having a quick look with a torch last night before it got too dark, it looks like the CAS sits behind the harmonic balancer, hence the balancer has to come off, is that correct? Do I have to do any fancy stuff with the computer or anything after I replace it?

Cheers,

Mick.

[tivoom]

yeah mate sure has to there only like $50 odd bucks off ebay new (i think)

[Mick131]

Checked error codes friday night, Code 42 - Electronic Spark Timing Bypass Circuit fault (EST), changed the CAS and everything has been fine. Wife rang this morning (Tuesday), car is doing the same as before, just checked the error codes, all good, only Code 12 - System Pass (OK). When the problem arises, if the ignition is left on for a while, sometimes for more than 3 minutes, the fan stops, the fuel pump starts and the engine will then start. I've replaced the fuel pump and the CAS, where is code 42 pointing me? I don't want to keep replacing bits, if it keeps going I'll end up with a new car.

[Brett_jjj]

If the CAS is new,then it could be either the DFI (Direct Fire Injection) module,or it could be the ECU itself.I would first be checking all the wiring and connectors and the connector pins,carefully check for corroded pins,or broken wires and bad connections at the ECU and the DFI module(the DFI module is under the 3 coils,they plug into it.)The wiring connector to the DFI has an allen key bolt holding it in the module.This needs to be removed before you can unplug this connector.Looking through the VS workshop manual about the error code 42,it talks about checking and testing the DFI and ECU so these should be the next step if the wiring and connections prove satisfactory.

[kbelt66]

Hi mick131


How old is the paddlepop on your key. Flat batterie in it might be the problem.
Replace the paddlepop and hopefully this is the cheep way to go before you spend hundreds.
Just a suggestion.
Also are the terminals around your ignition located properly. Both thumbs on the terminals and rotate anticlockwise till you feel the fine click. If you cant move it then its already located.

hope this helps and the problems arent worse
Cheers KBELT

[moff_man]

Hi mick131


How old is the paddlepop on your key. Flat batterie in it might be the problem.
Replace the paddlepop and hopefully this is the cheep way to go before you spend hundreds.
Just a suggestion.
Also are the terminals around your ignition located properly. Both thumbs on the terminals and rotate anticlockwise till you feel the fine click. If you cant move it then its already located.

hope this helps and the problems arent worse
Cheers KBELT

if the flashing light is out on the centre consol under the radio than it wont be the key and immobliser. more than likley it will be the dfi module that sits under the coil packs it controls fuel and spark inconjunction with the pcm

edit: light not flashing while cranking means system ok (immobliser) light still flashing means its immoblised

[moff_man]

If the CAS is new,then it could be either the DFI (Direct Fire Injection) module,or it could be the ECU itself.I would first be checking all the wiring and connectors and the connector pins,carefully check for corroded pins,or broken wires and bad connections at the ECU and the DFI module(the DFI module is under the 3 coils,they plug into it.)The wiring connector to the DFI has an allen key bolt holding it in the module.This needs to be removed before you can unplug this connector.Looking through the VS workshop manual about the error code 42,it talks about checking and testing the DFI and ECU so these should be the next step if the wiring and connections prove satisfactory.

some times the plug on the dfi come loose, its held in place with a small bolt. this might be an issue, also corrosion in plugs dont help

[kbelt66]

Cheers moff_man
I'll keep an eye for these problems as well.

[trip01]

Moff_Man,

light not flashing while cranking means system ok (immobliser) light still flashing means its immoblised

This is my problem. The motor wont start when the immobiliser light still flashes. What do I do to fix please ?

Kind Rgds
Dave

[kbelt66]

Hi Trip01
Mate if the red light is still flashing your car is immobilised. (you can not start it).
If your pushin buttens and then nothing you need a new key head(paddle pop)
There is a 40-45 mins system of waiting to immobilise the system but i have never
needed to use it.
I have never had a miss programming new key heads..
local lcksmths????
Cheers KB

[Brett_jjj]

If the key is faulty or its battery is flat and it cant disabe the immobiliser,the engine wont wind over at all,nothing happens when the key is turned,just like when trying to start an auto in gear.

[wortus]

I haven't heard of the engine fan coming on right away when you go to start the engine. I don't think that would be the CAS or any loose wires it's more likely to be a faulty ECU. I'd be taking it out and inspecting it for any dry solder joints or damage. You have not given any one or got a jump start recently before this problem started?
The reason I am thinking it is the ECU is that when you bridge out the diagnostics plug to read the codes doesn't the fan come on right away and there is this time delay before it starts. If it was the BCM/security system that sends a signal to the ECU to allow the engine to start then it probably would not even crank?
I was told a while back that the car would still start with a flat battery in the key but that may be wrong?

[Kurtp]

Man if i had a dollar for everytime a post came up with "my car won't start" i would be a millionaire, the same issue repeating over and over and over, the same fixes told over and over.

[lclynch]

i had this issue with my ute. id jump in the tray above the pump and it would go.. but die soon after.
i replaced my fuel pump and fuel filter and used some injector cleaner stuff in my fuel. it seemed to fix it,
i also checked my sparks to make sure they are tight... but if it gets below 1/2 a tank i get issues like its choking..

[moff_man]

had a car yesterday doing this, push the key in firther untill the key makes contact with the key reader and wall-a car started, the tumblers in the barrell were worn. causing the key not to be read. pressing the remote unlock button should disarm the security but car must be started in around 30 sec to a minute.

[trip01]

Hi Trip01
Mate if the red light is still flashing your car is immobilised. (you can not start it).
If your pushin buttens and then nothing you need a new key head(paddle pop)
There is a 40-45 mins system of waiting to immobilise the system but i have never
needed to use it.
I have never had a miss programming new key heads..
local lcksmths????
Cheers KB

The red light blinks once or twice when turning key to start. Once the red light goes out, the motor starts. When the motor cuts out after driving for 20 mins or so, I try to start, the motor turns over & won't start. During this time, the red light continues to blink.

Did code check... 47. CAS, having replaced.