converting to abs

[RazzaCaine]

whats involved with converting my non abs vs to abs? i know i need the abs module and probably different hubs but is there anything else? anyone care to make me a list?

[wraith]

Why would you want to convert to ABS. It would probably be more cost effective to get another car that already has abs.

[RazzaCaine]

i can get an abs module for $40 so i was wondering what other parts would be needed. if itll be less than $200 then why not? my vs has been very well looked after and has very little wrong with it, if i buy another car it may have god knows what wrong with it

[wraith]

If there's no problems with the braking now why bother spending any money at all. Put it into something worth it.

[RX25SE]

Module
Hubs x4 (or new rear axle assembly if non IRS)
brake lines
wiring loom
ECU
plus all the little bits and pieces that get forgotten when doing a conversion

I will cost more than $200, plus your time.
Does the $40 module work? If its been sitting around the brake fluid inside absorbs moisture and corrodes the internals.

As above, sell it and get another car.

[Brett_jjj]

You would have to run all the wiring,install a different diff for the abs sensors to fit the rear,(depending if its irs or solid axle rear end) and also fit different front hubs for the front abs sensors.Im not sure if the brake master cylinder is different either.Only two brake line holes are used on the abs ones, the non abs ones have 3 holes for the brake lines .

[RazzaCaine]

wow sounds like a much bigger job than i originally thought. i was planning on doing a vt brake upgrade further down the line anyway so ill just do a non-abs vt brake upgrade. does the abs really make that much of a difference with day to day driving?

[wraith]

I don't have ABS in my VR and haven't run into any dramas. VT brakes will be a worth while upgrade though.

[Brett_jjj]

My VS doesnt have ABS.It only makes a difference to the average driver who will most likely just jump on the brakes in an emergency and end up locking up the front or all wheels,which usually ends up with them skidding into whatever they were trying to avoid.If you can drive ok and can control a car fairly good,you can do the same job if not better the abs system can.You need to be able to brake hard enough so the wheels are just before the point of locking up, which is where maximum braking capacity is achieved..ABS just locks and unlocks the brakes and hence the wheels really quickly allowing the wheels to rotate enough so they can grip the road and slow the vehicle.It also allows the vehicle to be steered,if the front wheels are locked up,you cant steer the car,it will just skid straight ahead no matter how much you turn the steering wheel.If you lock up the brakes on an ABS equipped car on some grass somewhere,you will feel the ABS modulator working,the brake pedal will pulsate quickly as the ABS applies and releases the brakes.

[The1]

ive got abs im my berlina, out of the last 10 years ive owned it ive only ever braked hard enough to use it 3 or 4 times.

[RazzaCaine]

so really its one of those safety equipments they put on cars for the rare situation that you might need it. ill just go for the vt front upgrade. do i need to make sure the upgrade kit comes from a non-abs vt or does it not really matter?? i drive my mums vt a lot which has abs and obviously bigger brakes and it just shits all over the brakes in my vs. ive never felt the pulsating in the vt so im guessing that means its because i havent had to use the abs

[hsv91ss]

my old VR had it, Never needed to use it as stated only is used for emergency situations and if you take your foot off and back on the pedal quick enough to avoid lockup its the same thing.

My mate upgraded to RDA Slotted Rotors which improved his braking pretty dramatically but @ $150 a pair vs the VT big upgrade which comes with four routers, Lines, Twin piston Calibers etc there is no Comparison and also will be more effective then your mums VT due to slotted routers, so there would be No Gas cushion created between the Rotor and Pads under heavy braking.

I myself am going to do the VT upgrade next Pay and upgrade my master cylinder while I am at it.

[RazzaCaine]

so what would be better then getting some slotted vs rotors or doing the vt brake upgrade?

[mischa]

Doing a VE upgrade

VE Twin Piston Upgrade Package suit VB-VZ Commodore!!!

[Cheap6]

Yes, the master cylinders are different between ABS and non-ABS; it's been covered in previous posts.

I say that ABS is definitely worth having given the choice. In many situations where ABS will be useful it will take a very disciplined and skilled driver to not panic and jump on the brakes hard enough to lock them. Coming back off them is likely to make the situation worse. Even knowing the theory and intermittently practicing emergency stops. Been there, seen and done that.

This is not an aspersion on anyone's driving skills. Unless you are regularly practicing to the point where it becomes second nature - regularly using your road car for motorsport is about the only way I can see that you could do that adequately - I doubt most people would behave any differently.

The above is based in part on having tried (practice) emergency stops and manouevres in a car with the ABS active and with it disabled.

I am less enamoured with stability control and, particularly, traction control as the thought processes and skill required where they will be of benefit are usually different, although, given the level of attention given to the task of driving by most (particularly non-enthusiast) people, they are worth having too.

[RX25SE]

^^^ 100% agree.

To put it another way.

Airbags may save you WHEN you hit something.
ABS may PREVENT you from hitting something.

Of all the electronic saftey devices that are available in new cars, I rate ABS the highest.

[RazzaCaine]

Doing a VE upgrade

VE Twin Piston Upgrade Package suit VB-VZ Commodore!!!

yeah i think i may do one of those as well, but not until the end of the year when funds permit. uni fees must come before car mods unforunately...

Yes, the master cylinders are different between ABS and non-ABS; it's been covered in previous posts.

I say that ABS is definitely worth having given the choice. In many situations where ABS will be useful it will take a very disciplined and skilled driver to not panic and jump on the brakes hard enough to lock them

yeah i see where you are coming from. i nearly got rear ended once as i had to brake hard not to go through a red light. the brakes started to lock up and then i realised that the driver behind was also not slowing down enough so i had to ease of the brakes and keep stabbing at them not to lock them up and to make sure i didnt brake so hard the car behind me would hit me. if i do sell my current car in the future ill make sure ill get a car with abs. however i wont be selling my current car because it doesnt have abs. i like to think that i wont really need the abs.... still be nice to have it just in case i guess

[LittleAlex]

"yeah i think i may do one of those as well, but not until the end of the year when funds permit. uni fees must come before car mods unforunately..."

Knowing how the uni fee thing feels unfortunately....

My Calais has ABS and the only time i have had to use it is in the rain or dirt, comes into its own in these cases...

[ashzv6]

hi mate.
abs with vt front calipers works very good.
but converting a non abs car to abs i beleive is not worth it.
installing the extra parts is easy but running the wiring loom which is tapped into the current loom will be a nightmare!
also I beleive this would not be a legal mod considering your messing with the brakes,
An engineers certificate would definetly be required or in the event of an accident,
wether or not brake related your insurrance will deny the claim.

Good tyres/ clean brake fluid and slotted discs will make the biggest difference and still keep it legal.

I have vts ready to go on but while I still have good pads and slotted discs they seem close to the vt,s.
on a vs statesman v6 btw.

vts really seem to mess with the brake bias.

under heavy braking the vs discs will get fade,
slotted hardly any fade at all
and vts slotted and drilled none what so ever what I could tell, this also included
high speed braking to 0.
but vts unless the car is slammed make it want to nosedive and wanto lose control even more.

[RazzaCaine]

so does that mean you have to get an engineers report to do a vt brake upgrade as well then as thats also messing with the brakes?

[Cheap6]

Legality of any mods depend on which state you are registering the car in but there has been some moves towards a national system of rules for vehicle mods: maybe try a search under "national code of practice for vehicle modifications" or similar and also the registration authority in your state for their rules.

It should be that swapping in the complete system so as to be the same as an option available from the factory would be considered as "owner certified" and not require an engineering report. This makes sense as there is no engineering required, merely competent installation.

A swap of parts from a different model is not the same as it does require engineering analysis to operate safely so yes, a swap to VT brakes will need an engineering report.

Some considerations that the engineer will look at:

Do the mods alter front rear brake bias? (Ans: yes with VT)

Will the master cylinder and brake reservoir still permit brake operation with complete failure of either circuit in the split system. (Ans:??? with VT)

If ABS is involved (OK, it's not here) that will be considered also.

These should make interesting reading:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...formance.shtml

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

[RazzaCaine]

thanks for that, ill have a look at those links

[iphitus]

I was given a defensive driving course a year ago. It was very interesting to see the difference between the ABS/non-ABS cars.

In the dry, straight line, non-ABS did ok, even better once or twice. But then we had some light rain, enough to wet the track. Non ABS drivers didn't do so well. Only one non-ABS (sporty Barina) managed to get through the obstacle cones -- on his third try. To contrast, ABS drivers planted their foot and steered through with ease, just a little bit of understeer. I did miserably, my old non-abs Camry stationwagon fishtailed terribly.

In the wet, ABS can do things that a driver cannot. ABS can selectively lock/unlock wheels and it can react at a faster rate than a human. An extreme example of this is a car with differential grip, eg: left wheels dry, right wheels wet. ABS can moderate the braking to avoid a spin.