Loss of charge and other electrical problems

[Cobra Clutch]

Okaay...

Got some problems with the ol VS yet again.

First wanted to say thanks to all the people that help around here. I've had so many problems with the car over the last year, every bit of time I get off work I seem to be working on it. And seeing as its a long weekend I knew something would happen! Like clockwork it did!
Anyway, much appreciation.

The problem/s:

(VSII V6 Dual Fuel)

I thought the starter was on the way out, because it was taking a while to crank over lately. I only realised last weekend when I didn't drive it for a few days that it was flat and has been losing charge. I have had this problem in the past, but it was that thin wire on the alt, which I replaced by a big fat sucker and haven't had a problem until now.
Anyway, it starts straight away with full charge, so starters prob fine.

I didn't have time to work on during the week, so I have been disconnecting the battery at work, because I was afraid it would be flat when I went to go home and just connected it again before I left.
Worked fine, but I went out the other night and did the same thing. When I plugged the battery back in, it started, but the electrics went haywire. All the lights looked half-powered and the windscreen wipers started going (very slowly) and the blinkers and other things. My wife was like 'this is like that horror movie Christine!' ha ha

Anyway I had a look and barely started it again, with the same result. I thought I would just limp it home, but then it sounded like it was going to stall out, and BANG, everything went back to full power. Weird.

None of that happened again. So now I am back to where I was, but now there is an added: when I start it there is a short cranking, grinding sound in the engine straight after it starts, kinda like I'm still cranking it over, but not quite, and I guess its still taking a bit of charge.

I thought it might be the alt because I replaced the tensioner arm a couple of weeks ago and had to pull it out like 4 times to get the hose seal properly, so I might have damaged it or something. I assume it has been happening since that day. I replaced the back part of the alt (the switch??) last year, so it shouldn't be that. I checked the wiring to it and it seems fine and batt is less than a year old.

Sorry for the massive post, this one has me scratching me head
Any help would be great.

I kinda hope its the alt, cause I know I can replace it in 5 minutes, ha ha. But might not be the case.

[hako]

I'd be checking the big fat wire that goes under the nut at the back of the alternator - it can appear OK but be buggered internally...look for signs of the insulation burning, also try bending/moving where it connects. Check your earth to engine lead...also both battery terminals must be tight and clean. Good luck.

[Cobra Clutch]

I took the wiring off the nut and had a good look the other day, but I think its alright.

[The1]

sounds like a faulty cell in the battery not giving charge all the time, does happen.

Other than that it's time to break out the multimeter and check for current being drawn when everything is off.

Also check with the engine running and see if the voltage is higher to the battery compared to when it's off.

[Cobra Clutch]

I think the batt is okay, because when I unplugged it, it had plenty of charge. Its only when I leave it plugged in for a while, it slowly loses charge.

[slayer208]

I've got a bad cell in the battery in my VS. Seems to gradually lose charge, but over a week or so. Hooked it up to my diagnostic hand held scanner, and my program was coming up with low voltage errors on sensors and alike. SO if your battery isn't in tip top condition, your engine won't run right for a start. I would start there, and then check your wiring. You know a hand held diagnostic scanner and a laptop would be really hand for ya'. I've found it to be an in-valuable tool when working with my VS. You can get em' on ebay from $100-$160.

Also, are you suspecting the starter motor to be on its way out? coz that's what it sounds like to me. Either that or it's loose on the bellhousing. I had a vk commodore with a stuffed starter motor and it used to make a harsh metal noise as you described. Half the problem was it wasn't bolted up tight enough due to stripped threads in the bellhousing, the other half of the problem is that it was stuffed and really didn't want to crank over too well.

Check your battery condition first before going anywhere, and work from there. Might also pay to clean up your battery connectors and terminals if they look dirty or whatever.

Cheers!

[The1]

youl need a multimeter then to check how much current is being drawn from the battery in a off state, then start pulling fuses to narrow down the item flattening your batt.

[Cobra Clutch]

But would a bad cell cause all that crazy flickering and random power-ons to the accessories??

If I pull the water pump fuse or the engine fuse the problems stop, but then I cant start the car. I think its because those both isolate most things?

[The1]

it all depends on how the cell is stuffed in the battery, it could do different things with different amount of currents being draw, either way the first step is going to be using a multimeter to rule out to much current being draw whist nothing is in use.

[Cobra Clutch]

it all depends on how the cell is stuffed in the battery, it could do different things with different amount of currents being draw, either way the first step is going to be using a multimeter to rule out to much current being draw whist nothing is in use.

I think I fixed the shorting problem and there is no 'cranking' anymore. But not sure if its still losing charge.

The batt voltage when running is about 13.9, and when off its about 12.5

[The1]

voltages sound right so your alternator is working. You still need to really test to see if there any amperage drain the batt though, so you obviously have a multimeter, if you dont know how to check for current being draw then reply back and ill write up.

[Cobra Clutch]

voltages sound right so your alternator is working. You still need to really test to see if there any amperage drain the batt though, so you obviously have a multimeter, if you dont know how to check for current being draw then reply back and ill write up.

I've done it in the past a little, but don't really know what to do comfortably.

My brother is an elec engineer, so I used to get the him to check, but he's too far away now.
Man, I know its a hassle, but I would appreciate it so much , as I've had several problems with losing current on the VS.

[The1]

You need to switch your positive lead on your multimeter to the other socket which should be coloured red as well, should have max 10amps or something like that on it. You need to set it to DC amp mode, some have different scales some are automatic digital ones, you just want the 20 units mode so that everything below 1 amp will show up as for eg 100millamps where as if you set it at 200units it would show 0.1amp this is to give you your proper scale and give more detailed figures.

Once you've done this remove your positive cable from the battery, the multimeter will act as a pass-through device so it can read the current draw, so one terminal on the battery and the other on the positive cable that is normally on the battery's pole.

You should then get a reading of x amount of milliamps, for a normal car you would see in the range of about 25 milliamps or less. If the figure is above this then start removing fuses one by one and rechecking the narrow it down to what is drawing the excessive current.

Hope this helps

[Cobra Clutch]

Thanks mate, thats awesome. I just started testing before, thought they were the right settings. I have 3 positive terminals; the V, A (2A max) and an unfused 20Amax.

A guy in another thread told me to put it in the fuse holes after taking one out, but when i touched it with the multi lead, it arced up!
Either that is the one that is drawing, or I've done something wrong...

Anyway, might do it your way, thats how my brother used to do it

[The1]

you would want the 20amp unfused, you would have just blown the crap out of the fuse, but if it blew the fuse with it in the 2amp socket then no wonder your battery goes flat quick.

[Cobra Clutch]

U mean the MM fuse?
I doesn't look burnt, I might be alright.

Can I assume that fuse was the one causing the problem, or...

It is the parking light, trip computer fuse

Thanks again for all the help too mate

[The1]

on the 2 amp plug on the multimeter is 2amp max, it has a 2amp fuse on that circuit inside the MM, that plug will no longer work till the fuse is replaced inside the MM, the unfused circuit should still continue to function.

[Cobra Clutch]

on the 2 amp plug on the multimeter is 2amp max, it has a 2amp fuse on that circuit inside the MM, that plug will no longer work till the fuse is replaced inside the MM, the unfused circuit should still continue to function.

Yeah, thats what I'm saying, I checked it and it looks fine to me, but maybe sometimes its hard to tell.

[The1]

if you put the multimeter into diode test or resistance test mode you can test the fuse, if it's ok it should short out to 1 or 0 if nothing comes up it's blown. You can test the reading by touching the multimeter probes together.

Have you checked the amperage load being drawn from the battery what did it read?

[Cobra Clutch]

I havn't tested the load on the car yet, as I ran out of time last night.
I'm pretty sure the problem is fixed, because this morning it seemed like it had full charge on start, but will still check tonight.

Thanks so much for the help man, I will post the full fix later for anyone who might have similar problems.

Now I have to deal with this 'squealing' problem on start-up that is back.
I originally thought it was electrical, but now it kind of sounds like a drivebelt thing, because when the car is warm and I start it, it doesn't make the sound.

I recently replaced the tensioner arm and the idler pulleys and I also bought a new drive belt last year.
Another thing to get me scracthin my head...

I'm pretty handy with the tools, but I'm not great at diagnosing the problem...thank God for this forum!

[The1]

water pumps sometimes sequel when the bearings are going.

[Cobra Clutch]

Yeah, I've been suss about the WP bearings to tell you the truth for a while, but don't want to touch it, looks like a pain in da butt...never ends.
More fun ahead.
The water pump is only a few years old, do you know if it is easy enough to separate the bearings from it?

[The1]

for the price of a water pump these days just whack a new one on. There not hard to do if your good with a spanner

[Cobra Clutch]

Have you checked the amperage load being drawn from the battery what did it read?

It is at .04, which sounds very low, considering when I put the interior light on, it was at about .5 and the central locking shot it up about 8.0 for a second

[The1]

40 milliamp is fine, mine sits around 25-30 if it was over 100 all the time i would be checkin it out