coolant leak, new pump is in order?

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

hey folks, sorry to get another coolant leak thread up

but yesterday my car started leaking coolant. i parked it in the shed to do some checks and took no notice of a small puddle of coolant since i topped it up earlier. but when i drove my car out of the garage and parked it in the drive way i saw it was leaking. No leaks around the hoses so i jacked it up to follow the leak trail. i couldn't find any real leaks around the pump, tho the leak trail starts above the crack pulley ( so i could've missed it). i poured in some Nulon stop leak, drove it around so the coolant went though the engine twice. Surprise, surprise, no leaks and didn't find any fresh leaks/drops when i checked it every hour then after.

Then this morning getting ready to drive my sister to school, i checked and saw no fresh leaks. started up the car, wiped the rain/frost off the glass, came back to the front where it started leaking again.
when i arrived home, i saw small traces of coolant but it wasn't leaking as much. i got my oil tray under atm to see if it'll start again.

I'm thinking that a new pump might be in order, tho i'll most likely will change it next week,

My dad used water in the car before i got it and yes there's traces of rust in there. one of my questions is would a coolant flush help remove it? ( i didn't use coolant flush when i changed it over because i was afraid of opening old leaks. ah the Irony)
also; the reservoir tank is always empty a day or two after i fill it halfway, because of this i use the super cheap brad 10L coolent so i have heaps of top up left

anything else i should do/check? besides changing the thermostat+housing+belt

engine:3.8L VS

sorry about the long read

[wiseman]

I cant really help you out, but i have a similar problem. I have a V6 ecotech, that when parked overnight, leaks coolant. I see coolant dripping from my sump, front right hand corner. I have a my mechanic look for the leak the other day, when i was getting a pink slip, he even had it up on the hoist, also used a mirror to look around. The result was cant seem to find where this drip is happening, the system was pressure tested while on hoist, and no leaks. It seems to drip over night, without any pressure in the system, next day there is always a wet spot on the concrete.
I put some stop leak in, but it did not fix it 100%. still has small drip.
The mechanic mentioned something about the timing chain case cover? Behind the water pump. Anyone know if it can leak coolant there?
Anyway, i dont have to top it up much, and the temp is ok, water pump is GM brand, about 40,000 old.
Mechanic advised me not to waste my time and money chasing such a small leak. So i wait until it turns into a bigger leak?

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

yeah, same here. no real over heating problems.
drove it again for awhile with no leaks, but it could be the stop leak working. i'll see what happens when i start it up tomorrow morn

my mate and his dad (who both know their stuff) said it sounds like the ball bearings are gone.

[TheIceman]

hey, any leak is worth following up and finding, it could be terminal to your engine otherwise.

And it really makes me tear my hair out when i hear people putting stop leak into their radiator. it means we, mechanics who do proper jobs and have to give warranties, have to go and pull radiator out and get it all flow tested and possibly cleaned out, flush the block, flush the heater core, check thromostat to see if it has blocked anything else up it shouldnt. then we have to find the leak, fix it and pressure test again etc.. far more expensive than if someone just bought in an initial leak and said, fix it or diagnose it, rather than try to stop it themselves.

as for your leak, maybe water pump, they leak at weird times, either when they are cold at start up as pressure starts building and stop leaking as they warm up, or vica versa.

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

understand what your saying TheIceman, but you know how people always want a cheap quick fix before taking it to the mechanics unless they know what you have to go through.

started her up this morning and the leak started. the only reason I'm thinking its stopping is when the stop leak goes through. i now only drive it to just drop off and pick up my sister from school which is a short drive. but I'll change the pump over early next week when the holidays start.

[slayer208]

Yeah, there's a seal in the water pump. Once the seal breaches, you'll get water flowing out of the water pump from the bottom of it. Usually will flow straight onto your crank angle sensor ;(. F*&^ing idiot designers!. I done my pump Sunday that just passed. Very easy to do. I had more trouble getting the damn drive belt back on. GGrrrrr that was a BiTcH!!. Also found that my whole 3 idler pulleys are stuffed too, so iv'e now got them on order, so off with the belt again. Damn.....

Also, try never to use that stop-leak crap. I'd only ever use it if I had a blown head gasket and was looking to sell the car. Easier for me to just fix the problem.

A new water pump you can get off ebay for around $35. I got mine from there. Bluepack automotive. Sent it out pretty fast and seem to give reliable service.

Also with the radiator flush! use it, but try and get ahold of Loctite radiator flush. Damn good shit!. Repco near home always use it on their clients cars so it's hardly ever in stock around here, so I always tell em' to look around the corner from their counter and they always bring some back. lol.

Regards!

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

slayer208 if you don't mind me asking, did you have to take off the smaller pulley which is just upper right of the pump or can you just pull the pump off with the bottom hose still connected?
plus did you take off the spacer so i should buy an extra gasket?

my Max Ellery manual which shows how to do it on the L27 3.8 VN/VP/VR engine, not the VS/VT L36 3.8

starting to sound like i should take out the "stop leak" fluids from my cars first aid bag

[slayer208]

Nah, I didn't have to take off that idler pulley.

You should be able to remove the bottom radiator hose, depending on where the last person sat the hose clamp as far as getting into there with a screwdriver goes.

That spacer on the water pump. Well i'm not sure! My old pump never had one on there, so i'm assuming that the new one didn't need it either. I do remember when i replaced one on the vn, it said that space was only for particular models, so hopefully it's not a pre-requisite for the VS. I have done around 400Km's on the new pump and all's good, so hopefully it'll stay that way "touch wood!". lol

Getting the belt back on was a little trouble, coz i was fighting against the idler pulley tensioner. ended up connecting all the belt up to the pulleys and gradually rolled it over the power steering hub with a screwdriver wedged in between the front bolts. Seemed to do the trick!.

Cheers!

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

on Morton's guide it only says for series 1 engine (L27). appreciate all the info

[hako]

Use 2 people to put the belt back on - one with a ring spanner on the tensioner removing tension and the other sliding the belt on. Make sure you buy the correct pump for your VS as there are 2 different ones although some will fit both with the adaptor (supplied).....don't worry about the spacer - if the new pump has one with it then use it but if it comes bare with just a gasket then use just that. No gasket cement is needed. Make sure you use a razor blade to remove all traces of the old gasket. I wouldn't replace the thermostat as they either work or they don't work so why spend the extra cash....same with belt - if the ribs are OK then no problem. Be careful removing the bolts from the waterpump as some will have rusted threadsd so unscrew 1/2 turn then tighten 1/4 turn, unscrew 1/2 turn etc etc to reduce chance of snapping one off especially if your old man was using straight coolant which is bad for V6's. Should only take about an hour to fit and finally use grease or some form of lubricant on the bolt threads to make them screw in easier. Good Luck.

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

i was looking into about there being 2

is the what is the difference? is it engine wise? (eg different for l76?)

my VIN states: 6H8VSK19H HTL######

super cheap parts guide suggests this pump for it as it says its for VS 6H8VS#19H
Water Pump - PWP4000A - Supercheap Auto

should i go out and possible by new screws if they are badly rusted? so i don't snap them when tightening them up.
pretty sure they sell them at super cheap or i might have to go to Holden

[hako]

It's different for the V6 - series 1 VS have a different pump from series 2 VS although they now make aftermarket pumps with a shim that goes over the pulley for series 2. Check with SuperCheap that the pump you mention is the multifit model - if you enlarge the pix in your link, it appears to have a shim on the nose...plus 4 bolts which you usually don't get. However, the pix may just be for display purposes.
Re new bolts - if they unscrew OK, they will be OK to use again unless they are badly rusted. I personally would not replace them unless badly rusted...but then I don't like parting with $$$$!
See this link for a good explanation of what a multifit pump looks like:NEW V6 HOLDEN VR VP VS VT VX VY COMMODORE WATER PUMP - eBay V8 Engines, Engines, Components, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 27-Jun-10 20:13:37 AEST)

Also check this link which shows the series 2 VS pump (not multifit and number 4001 - not 4000) and also gives engine numbers - not VIN.:
HOLDEN COMMODORE VS SERII, VT, VX WATER PUMP - eBay Other, Cooling Systems, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 06-Jul-10 10:58:22 AEST)

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

so the shim is a spacer that goes on top of the wheel where the bolts attach?

my rego says the engine number is well past VH515479 (second ebay link), starts off with VH56 which means it needs a serise 2 pump even tho the car is series 1

[hako]

Check the compliance plate on the bulkhead/firewall - it will show build date - if it's after 06/96 then it's a series 2. What makes you think it's series 1?....don't believe the rego papers either - the only real check is to read the number from the engine block.
However, it really doesn't matter if you buy a 'multi-fit' pump. Good Luck.

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

i know its series 1 because i know the build date is march 96 (i did check it before)

might go to repco/independent car store to see if they have multi fit ones. (i don't buy stuff off the net unless i can walk to the sellers shop if something happens)

i'll go engine number hunting when i have time, i believe its between idler pulley and air conditioner unit?

[HRVATSKI_VOJNIK]

i got the number off the block and starts VH56

which means I'll have to get the serise 2/VT/VX pump (WP4001) since the engine number is above VH515479.
so it looks like they started fitting these pumps in or before March '96 (folks bought the car new and no engine swaps)

i believe the difference is about 2mm? can someone confirm this

P.S don't know if this helps but the belt pulley cover is one piece which covers the water pump cone, where in Morton's guide he has an "O" shaped belt pulley cover

[VRcommondoor]

Hi all... just to throw my 2c worth in... I just had a series of cooling system leaks on my V6 VR. Each time I would fix one leak, another would appear (using water in the meantime didn't help either, seemed to aggravate it if anything - where possible, dont). I found that all the bits were getting old and when full pressure was restored to the system the next weakest link will be the next to go. In order went - heater tap, bypass bung, water pump seal.

The bypass bung and water pump seal leaks were tricky to find, as they dribble down seemingly from an invisible hose or from behind the water pump pulley.

The bung is just a little plug piece that fits into the block. The original is plastic and often crumbles when you try getting it out. If this happens remove the thermostat housing and thermostat and stick a hose in there to flush it. Peps has replacements but only plastic ones. Bursons on the other hand have brass ones so goodbye problem forever.

If the water pump seal is stuffed it will leak from 2 small holes on the water pump itself just behind the pulley.