head gasket or intake manifold gasket? how to tell? bit of assistance

[Go_Slow]

hi guys, my old car (93 vr calais), now my parents car appears to be going on its way out.
(330,000k's).

It’s been having a few over heating problems lately, and about 6 months ago its radiator cracked and I replaced it myself. (It was drinking shit loads of coolant)

Recently we’ve noticed the milky spots inside the radiator (and on the radiator cap underneath it)


Tell tale sign I know people will mention is milky oil. It’s not milky, it’s normal. but there is definitely coffee colored shit in the radiator. (Is this stuff going to ruin my radiator?) She takes a while to start sometimes but that because she’s on gas, (starts pretty much first go when starting on petrol)

Reading through the forums everyone is saying a head gasket, or it could also be the intake manifold gasket. Is there a way to tell the difference?


now the other day, i was driving it and it overheated, it started beeping, i pulled her over right away. there was heaps of coolant in the reservoir, but non in the radiator, so i let the car rest for 15 mins, then filled the radiator with water (to get me home), i got home no problems, (possble water pump giving way? and could this be due to oil being in the coolant system?) my sister drove it after that, and she said it never over heated.(i taught her where to look)


imp looking to get a Gregory’s manual and do it myself, paying so much to fix it, seems like I could do it myself (im happy to buy the needed tools on the way there), i know i'll prob need to buy a torque wrench.


When I take apart the engine, am I going to reach the intake manifold gasket before the head gasket? So I’ll be able to see the crack and say, shit it’s this, fix it and put the engine back together? (ill be buying a gregories, it appears ppl on the site suggest it for head gasket business, b4 the elleries)


If it’s not and it’s the head gasket, what can I do from home since I’m all the way that deep into the engine? She is on LPG and has been for a while. Is there anything extra to look at?

Definitely no mods going to be added, it’s my old man’s car. A to b.


hoping someone here can help out. cheers if i get this business done, i might even write up a really nice how-to.

Go_slow

[6330]

Look under the oil cap for the coffee froth.
If it's under the cap then it's probably water in the oil. ie. head gasket.
There is a test to see if carbon monoxide is in the radiator fluid (head gasket)
But I can't remember where to get it done, maybe your local radiator specialist?

[The1]

Generally if the water has oil in it coffee colour and the engine oil etc is all clean then intake gaskets are first thing to do.

Overheating and pushing excess amounts of water into the overflow can be head gaskets, first thing to check for head gasket issue is to do a compression test which will see if there is a pressure leak on one cylinder and also check your spark plugs for colour or oil stain which can indicate burning of coolant or oil.

If your prepared to do it yourself then it would be the most cost effective way to save the engine a while longer seeing it would be starting to get a bit of wear on it at 330k. It's much easier to the lot in one go if you do suspect the headgaskets as they all mate together anyway so you have to replace the intake gaskets when doing head gaskets.

If you wanted to replace the head gaskets and intake gaskets in one hit you can buy a complete kit with all the gaskets required i have seen them come with intake manifold gaskets, front and rear seals, head gaskets, rocket cover gaskets even valve stem seals and there pretty cheap.

I guess the only thing that may not resolve the issue is if the heads themselves are not flush or warped and need to be machined flat again which replacing head gaskets would not solve.

In the end it's upto you how much you want to put into it, with that many k's if you want to keep the car for a while it might be cheaper in the long run to get another engine, which alot can be had with low k's for $500 or so, just need to do a swapover.

[Go_Slow]

thanks guys, i went to super cheap and was sneaky and checked out the manual about how to do it. looks definitely do able. I know my dad is adament about keeping it, i personally don't think its in good enough nick to keep it. I mean I here people getting vz execs from auctions for 6 grand.... prob less for a vy exec. So i dunno.

i guess, your right about the heads etc. The power steering pump was recently replaced, the air con unit thingy, as well as the harmonic balancer (new), so i guess, maybe i'll be worth pulling it apart and doing it myself. I dont' mind.


the1 i think you may be right about the intake, im quite adament that the oil is fine, but the coolant is screwed, so it may be the intake manifold, having gone that far anyway, me thinks, it might be worth just getting the inner parts of the engine re-done, so it lasts more.

plus the car is on gas, so it really pays itself off anyway.

[ashzv6]

hi mate,
also if there isa coolant leak somewhere, internal or external, the overflow wont be able to draw in coolant from the resorvoir.

[Go_Slow]

okay, took it to the mechanic this is what happened.

paid 90 bucks, for the bloke to change the clips to the hoses, and do a pressure test.... (i think we got ripped, or a feel like we did, he did jack all) when i asked for a receipt, he said, if you want a receipt u gotta pay the gst on top of it. I dont get that bit.


He also confirmed the intake manifold gasket has a leak, how much should i expect to pay for that job??

[Go_Slow]

oh and he said about the 350 mark for the inlet gasket manifold.

[The1]

sounds right it's quite a few hours labour to change the gaskets over, fair bit of cleaning involved to make sure the surfaces are clean.

With the gst you basicly would have paid for a off the book job, so cash in hand and nobody knows about it. Otherwise he would have to do you an invoice and pay tax to the gov on the job.

[darcycammo]

hey Go_Slow would you be able to get photos along the way so i can have a look how to do it (if you can) cause i have the same problem with mine and i dont no if i should get red of the car or fix it or spend the money and get some one to do it

[Brett_jjj]

I suggest you go buy a gregorys workshop manual for $30-$50 and change the gaskets yourself and save a heap of money.The workshop manual instructions are all step by step with plenty of pictures,you cant go wrong.

[darcycammo]

how long do you think it would take to do?

[Brett_jjj]

If youve never really attempted to fix anything like this before,then you should be able to easily do this in a day following the workshop manual..Theres a fair bit of cleaning to do where you remove the old gaskets from etc.If youve done stuff like this before then it will probably take around 3 - 4 hours to get it done,maybe even quicker.

[Super_Low 91]

Whats the best method to clean the crap off from under the intake manifold before you put the new gasket on etc?

[WAFFEN SS]

Your getting tucked. I can do head gasgets in 3 hours (Drive in drive out) its a easy as job and the parts are cheap. Id say get a gasket set and do all of it, Do it once and do it right. Other opp is take your drive belt off and give the water pump pully A wiggle up down and in out, If you can hear or feel it knocking around then its buggered! Do some hunting around and change your thermostat and radiator cap, Make sure you bleed it properly after, Take your time Get it Hot and heater on.
Other poses.... Heater Tap leaking, check inside the car under dash and under floor carpet.
O-ring on steel tube that goes behind/under alternator into the intake under the therostat
Hose clamps on the join in the heater hose, Some models have this join.
Do a compreson test, Oil smoke when reving out under load, rings could be buggered from heat
check oil level, is it rising as you loose water

All these things went wrong for me after Cooking my last motor, Good luck.

To clean the heads and block I used a paint scraper and a FINE big (300mm plus) square file, Clean all the crap out of the bore when you done then check the bore for scaring and if theres a bad lip at the top ( The place the piston rings reach to at the top of each stroke).

[Jess walter]

hey guys does your cars get realy hot aswell like red line hot and would you recomend replace the motor or fix the gaskets or get hole new car VZ or VE

[leayr]

i just done my head gaskets and machined and pressure tested the heads plus vrs kit done the labour my self cost me $360