Donating Member
VR Brake upgrade??
Hi guys,
Just wondering what to do with my brake as everybody knows the brakes on a Vr commodore really arent that great.. i was just wondering what would be the easiest upgrade and if anyone has actually done it.
٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶
I havent done it but i think VT brakes are an easy upgrade! Someone should correct me soon...
The Wagon on Wheels..
I think the Ve is the easiest so i hear because the calipers have smaller pistons and can run off the stock booster. I went for the Vt upgrade as the ve wasnt available at the time. Vt was a 5 min job to bolt up(well maybe a few more minutes), but basically they bolt up real easy. Ve i beleive require an adaptor for the caliper and i dare say for the rotor too(like the Vt rotors). But in saying all of that, do some research on the ve setup. If it runs with the stock booster(like really well, not like the vt's where they work but not real great and too loooonnngg a pedal), then the ve will be easier to setup and probably worth the extra few bob you may pay.
Originally Posted by Blown V6 Hatch
It's cheap and half arsed - perfect fit for a Commodore
Reaper
I haven't completed my upgrade on my VS-II but am in the process of doing so. Just waiting on some bits in the mail to finnish the job. There's no difference in my doing a VT brake upgrade from your car to mine, so you're lucky there. First thing's first, if you're gonna do the brake upgrade you'll definately need a budget! I initially thought whack on a set of VT/VX calipers and that's it! truth is it's not! You're gonna need bigger rotors and pads to suit, conversion hoses and either a modded VT+ booster with master or a VS booster with a VT+ master unit to get the best out of it all. The VT/VX brake upgrade is however quite easy to do. First of all after you've got all the gear you need, you'll need to jack the car up with the front wheels removed. Then you'll have to take off the rotors. Once this is done, you can see how the calipers fit on the hubs and you'll notice that you'll have to get in there with a grinder to remove the excess dust cover. Gotta cut that down to size to clear the new calipers. Once this is done you'll have to either use either VT+ rotors with the VS centre hole "DB040B" or use standard VT+ rotors "DB040" with the egg-ring spacers to pack up the slack from the rotor to the wheel hub. This slack is only 1.7mm but is enough to cause damage if it's not dealt with. Once that's done you'll find the original brake hoses will be a little too short, so you'll have to get new ones. Race brakes sydney is good for this, and I got a set of s-steel braided ones for $150. Now for the next challenge you'll find out that your braking system probably won't be up to spec as far as the master unit goes. No point trying to change the master from the VR with one from a VT+ as i've been told they won't fit, however if you get a VS booster that will be a direct fit. There are some other options as far as it goes also. You could pay the $500 for a VT+ booster and master that's already converted for your VR or buy a good secondhand VS booster and VT/VX master cylinder. Once you've got that all sorted you've just gotta bleed the system like mad. The cost of it all?? You can get basic conversion kits from ebay for around the $700 mark with solid rotors and standard pads but will still have to deal with the master/booster seperately. A secondhand booster/master unit won't cost too much though. Maybe $100 at the most if you're smart.
The cost for me to get the conversion parts is as follows:
$75 - VX master/booster "just wanted the master"
$100 - VX Calipers
$180 - Drilled and slotted rotors with performance brake pads
$50 - Egg ring spacers
$192 - Stainless Steel braided hoses with adaptor for VS booster to VT+ master cylinder
$40 - PBR caliper seal kit "recommended when using secondhand calipers"
$40 - Brake fluid and caliper paint
Total Cost = $677
Don't know if the brake upgrade is really worth that sort of money but there it is! Won't know if it was really worth it until the conversion is finnished!
Hope this helps ya' champ!
Cheers!
The Wagon on Wheels..
How To - VT Brake Upgrade
Vt booster m/c in Vr V8 with ABS
If you wanna go the vt upgrade.
It's cheap and half arsed - perfect fit for a Commodore
Reaper
Otherwise the VE caliper provides better feel through smaller pistons and less flex, greatly superior to VT calipers, especially in early model commodores where there's no need to change the master cylinder:
VE Twin Piston Upgrade Package suit VB-VZ Commodore!!!
- GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 -
Sick of paying too much for high performance brake pads? Want high performance and cold bite with low rotor wear?
- QFM Performance Brake Pads -
Also specialising in
- DMS High Performance Shock Absorbers - Monit Rally Computers -
Definately go the VE setup if you've got the coin. Might be worth the hassles, and at least you won't have to play with the master/booster.
Easiest and least expensive upgrade is change the rotors to slotted rotors and buy a good set of brake pads that don't fade easily. Rotors are cheap so if the pads have to chew them out to make it stop better so be it. the sort of money needed to upgrade the brakes to VT or VE is getting up to a large % of the value of the entire car so it's probably not worth it and probably better to upgrade to a newer car as they have a lot of other safery improvements as well unless you really like your current car.
I had a VN with 14" wheels and those brakes are worse than those on a VR/VS and I just used slotted rotors and found a brand and type of pad that worked well and they were good enough for me after that. I think the pads were from Australian Friction Industries, they are in Liverpool, Sydney and have been making asbestos free for a long long time. I used their harder compound which has a red dot on the packet. Australian Friction Industries Pty Ltd Australian Brake Lining Co.
Donating Member
Wow didnt expect a responce like that.. must say thanks everybody vrwagz i will be looking into the VE upgrade and ill get back to everybody with what it turns out.. just wondering if i will have to change my master... or will i need anything more really than rotors calipers and adaptors. And also would like to say thanks to slayer208. if i dont get to lucky with the VE upgrade i will definately look into the VT/VX thanks alot for your responce mate you've been a good help let me know how your upgrade ends up huh?
Donating Member
could anybody tell me if this would be anygood for a conversion please???? VE SSV BRAKES - CALIPERS & ROTORS - eBay, Other, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 09-Jul-10 08:52:02 AEST)
The Wagon on Wheels..
Does he mean 4 calipers(ie, 2 front 2 back or 2 sets of fronts). I know not much about the ve upgrade, i would imagine that stock ve rotors are used(like the vt upgrade). The biggest thing is going to be sourcing the caliper mount adaptor plate and any rotor adaptor you may need(plus at a decent price also). Deducing gslrallysport's comments the ve calipers work with the stock master/booster setup alot better then the vt's.
It seems to be a catch 22. Vt's cheap to come by and only need a cheap basic hub spacer to fit them up, but require the expense/time/knowhow of fitting vt booster/master for best performance.
Whereas the ve's seem to bolt up pretty easy with special adaptors and use the stock booster/master. Only problem is they cost a packet more.
It's cheap and half arsed - perfect fit for a Commodore
Reaper
Thats it go vt if you can you it yourself and cost is a factor and ve if your giving it to someone else to do......VSSECO has ve front brakes and the vx master/booster he would be the bloke to ask about that setup and how good that is.
Last edited by markovr; 09-07-2010 at 10:41 AM.
This is my vr that I rebuilt ....CLICK HERE to see my vr on Cardomain
......if you want to check it out......Anyway make sure you rubbish a ford daily ....I am a 4DH8RZ Club lifetime member .................new members joining everyday
i just did front upgrade to mine to VT brakes but i think im having some problems after i bleed to brakes properly ill find out cause atm my pedal is just going straight to the floor
mmm loving my VR
Can you pump up a pedal? Do you have a better pedal when the engine isnt running?
The bleeding procedure I use is slip a piece of clear tubing that is a tight fit over the bleeder nipple on the caliper ( bleeder should be at the top of the caliper) set it up so it goes up higher than the bleeder and then down into a container so it doesnt go everywhere and you can see the air escaping by looking at the tubing at the bleeder end and get someone to give the pedal 3 pumps and on the last one hold the pedal on the floor and crack the bleeder..air should come out with some fluid .....do up the bleeder and do the 3 pumps again and repeat procedure for as many times as it takes to get just solid fluid coming in the tube..move over to the other side ..repeat...should be all good. If you are doing the master too probably a good idea to do the calipers first get a good pedal and move on to the master install.
I found I could bleed the master cylinder at the flare nuts of the master without even touching the wheels. I run some water underneath where fluid might be splashed and drop a couple of rags under the cylinder to catch any fluid so it doesnt damage the paint beforehand.
I first prime the master by filling one reservoir ...say the front (nearest the firewall)and undoing the top flarenut completely and let it bubble for a few minutes to fill up a bit.Then get your finger and put it over the hole in the cylinder and get someone to push the pedal.As they do you should feel air escaping until the pedal hits the floor.....then tighly push on the hole with your finger and as they bring the pedal back it will suck fresh fluid into the cylinder...repeat until you feel solid fluid come out of the hole as they push the pedal down but get them to push down slowly as you can spray the fluid everywhere if it is pushed quickly .Then refit the flare nut and just nip it up so it seals.Push the pedal down again and hold it there as it hits the floor and undo the flare nut just a bit to break the seal and air should then bleed out of the thread around the nut..nip it up ...repeat a couple of times until only fluid comes out of the thread hole and your finished on that end....nip up the flarenut.
Fill the other reservoir and repeat priming and bleeding process for the rear.
I found that even if you didnt get all the air out of the front cylinder before you did the back you could bleed it again later at the end as the air rises and sits there and it is easy to bleed out.Never had to bleed at the wheels yet to intall just the cylinder and Ive personally done 4 of them.
Last edited by markovr; 09-07-2010 at 11:07 AM.
havent got the money to get the new master just yet so im hopeing the stock master will do for another week
mmm loving my VR
If you are keen I supply all you need to do the vt/x master/booster to fit your car for 200 + post...have done plenty in the past and havent had any dramas
dont know if i can change mine though because i have abs so i dont know how it works but if i can change it then im keen im not far from brisbane atm cause i just moved back to QLD so i could probably pick it up
mmm loving my VR
A few people have put them on abs equiped cars without dramas ...the pipework would be the only thing you would have to bend around ( not much) to get it to fit properly.
It's easy to be negative but I agree that there is a lot in favour of this approach:
No issues with legality and insurance.
Light weight => no reduction in fuel economy and, less importantly, performance in both acceleration and deceleration. No extra load on dampers (I know; "Does it really matter?).
Least cost.
Improvement - balanced improvement - to both front and rear brakes.
Easy.
No effect on ABS operation.
Even more improvement could be achieved by ducting cooling air to the discs.
The VS M/C has better brake pedal feel.
How do they know?
For those persisting with the VT- conversion:
The crack point for the proportioning valve in the VT M/C is ~3.1Mpa, that for the VN-VR one is ~2.1MPa. Swapping the M/C will probably help brake distribution as well as pedal feel but it's still guessing/experimenting.
Best would be finding a PBR caliper body with 2 x 38mm pistons that fits onto the VT- bracket. 2mm thick sleeves with new pistons might work (but beyond DIY).
well i still have no brakes ive bleed them and everything and still nothing when im on the pedal just goes to the floor its kinda get pressure but when i turn the car on it goes
mmm loving my VR
The Wagon on Wheels..
Yes it is a gamble there, but basically i have personally tested the abs under controlled conditions and it still works which is good enough for me. I have also had my setup certified by an engineer.
You must have air some where. If your on the stock booster the pedal becomes very looong, but it stops just before the floor.
It's cheap and half arsed - perfect fit for a Commodore
Reaper
If you are worried about saving weight leave the missus at home. Brake ducts on streetcar...very v8 supercar ...youre kidding right?
By no drama Im talking about bleeding and assembling and fitting.....Ive had mine for 4+ years driven the car (non abs)for over 80,000 km in all situations and never regretted doing it. Ive had to hit them hard and never locked up rears
Stock system doesnt even compare but stick to your original setup if you arent comfortable and look at it from a economic view...wrecking yards are full of stocko braked commodores...lots of spares
Last edited by markovr; 10-07-2010 at 01:41 AM.
well after i press the pedal a couple of time pressure builds up and then its gone again ive bleed them twice just gonna get a mechanic to look at it monday
mmm loving my VR
The bleed nipples are at the top of the caliper? Three pumps and hold the pedal down undo caliper bleed nipple and something should come out ..a few spits of air..keep the pedal down and do up bleeder before releasing pedal..repeat three pump etc but you have to pump up some sort of pedal before you undo the caliper bleeder and from there it should improve....apart from power bleeding a mechanic will do exactly the same.....ive done a few and following that procedure has never let me down....
i bleed them way you told me yesterday i think im having problem cause the front drivers side cant be bleed the nipple was striped so thats where the air will be
mmm loving my VR
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