VS commodore, mods don't seem to be as effective as thought..

[Patti2912]

Hey guys,
First post here so take it easy on the whole "noob" thing please.
Anyways, i recently bought a 1993 VR S Commodore, as unfortunately had someone write off my 99 VT S without insurance (owch!)..
On the VT i had put extractors and a sports exaust on, and could notice a big improvement in performance.
The VR however came with:
DUEL FUEL,
EXTRACTORS,
COLD AIR INTAKE,
EXHAUST / TWIN DUMP PIPE,
BIGGER THROTLE BODY,
BIGGER CAMS,
NEW STARTER MOTOR,
NEW DRIVEPLATE,
NEW TRANSMISSION MOUNT,
TIMIMG COVER SEALS,
HARMONIC BALANCER,.

Along with a lot of non performance modifications, very cool car, and very well maintained.
ANYWAYS, my problem is, i am just not feeling the performance that i would assume those mods would give.
I fully understand that this is a 17 year old car, so clearly mods aren't going to be as effective as a newer model car, and im not expecting the world, but it just feels... kinda stock?

I am going to be replacing filters, spark plugs, gaskets and clean fuel tank tonight which i am hoping will make an improvement as it usually does, thing is like i earlier said, the car has been maintained beautifully, so i have no doubt in my mind what so ever that these things were also maintained on a regular basis.

Anyone have the same kind of problems, or can suggest anything at all that i could troubleshoot?

Cheers, Stephen.

[Raremetal]

Hey guys,
First post here so take it easy on the whole "noob" thing please.
Anyways, i recently bought a 1993 VR S Commodore, as unfortunately had someone write off my 99 VT S without insurance (owch!)..
On the VT i had put extractors and a sports exaust on, and could notice a big improvement in performance.
The VR however came with:
DUEL FUEL,
EXTRACTORS,
COLD AIR INTAKE,
EXHAUST / TWIN DUMP PIPE,
BIGGER THROTLE BODY,
BIGGER CAMS,
NEW STARTER MOTOR,
NEW DRIVEPLATE,
NEW TRANSMISSION MOUNT,
TIMIMG COVER SEALS,
HARMONIC BALANCER,.

Along with a lot of non performance modifications, very cool car, and very well maintained.
ANYWAYS, my problem is, i am just not feeling the performance that i would assume those mods would give.
I fully understand that this is a 17 year old car, so clearly mods aren't going to be as effective as a newer model car, and im not expecting the world, but it just feels... kinda stock?

I am going to be replacing filters, spark plugs, gaskets and clean fuel tank tonight which i am hoping will make an improvement as it usually does, thing is like i earlier said, the car has been maintained beautifully, so i have no doubt in my mind what so ever that these things were also maintained on a regular basis.

Anyone have the same kind of problems, or can suggest anything at all that i could troubleshoot?

Cheers, Stephen.

Hey, good first post.

Id say you've just gone from a VT to a 93 VR. And not gotten use to it. If you really don't think its putting out what it should, Id say just give it a small service and see what that does. Like you said, clean fuel tank/plugs/filters etc. Whilst where on that subject - cleaning the fuel tank (I own a 94 VR wagon) how hard is it to do and what is the outcome of doing so? better fuel consumption? better performance? Etc?

Cheers.
Rare.

[Patti2912]

Whilst where on that subject - cleaning the fuel tank (I own a 94 VR wagon) how hard is it to do and what is the outcome of doing so? better fuel consumption? better performance? Etc?

Cheers.
Rare.

It's pretty easy to do, in most cases just a matter of squirting in the injector cleaner. Google a how to and it will show you exactly how its supposed to be done, and the do's and dont's. Simply, the main purpose is to clean all of the built up additives that are left (and dry) on the injectors from the last bit of petrol left on them when you turn off your car. Also goes through and cleans everything connected to them.
It is supposed to give you better fuel consumption (if they're dirty/clogged), and increase performance as the injectors are able to inject the petrol out without having to push or force it to get through any build ups.
Also i've found that it makes the acceleration a hell of a lot smoother.

[VT-565]

maybe it needs an extra cam or two.
your VT wouldnt have seen any more than 8rwkw improvement and a bit of extra torque with your exhaust, I don't know what you're expecting out of a VR V6, but its obviously too much.

[Patti2912]

I don't know what you're expecting out of a VR V6, but its obviously too much.

As i said, "I fully understand that this is a 17 year old car, so clearly mods aren't going to be as effective as a newer model car, and im not expecting the world, but it just feels... kinda stock?"
Obviously you didn't read it correctly buddy.

[VT-565]

As i said, "I fully understand that this is a 17 year old car, so clearly mods aren't going to be as effective as a newer model car, and im not expecting the world, but it just feels... kinda stock?"
Obviously you didn't read it correctly buddy.

I can read.

You're still expecting too much out of the car, otherwise you would not be asking the question in the first place.

[Patti2912]

Cool, so these mods wont improve anything on the car what so ever?
Your wasting your time here.
Im not expecting anything amazing, but obviously they would give it some sort of difference and currently it just doesn't feel like it is at all.
That's the reason for the question.

[VT-565]

Cool, so these mods wont improve anything on the car what so ever?
Your wasting your time here.
Im not expecting anything amazing, but obviously they would give it some sort of difference and currently it just doesn't feel like it is at all.
That's the reason for the question.

It's clear I'm wasting my time talking to you, but I'll try for the sake of humanity.
Lets have a look and see whats done.

The VR however came with:
DUEL FUEL,
EXTRACTORS,
COLD AIR INTAKE,
EXHAUST / TWIN DUMP PIPE,
BIGGER THROTLE BODY,
BIGGER CAMS,
NEW STARTER MOTOR,
NEW DRIVEPLATE,
NEW TRANSMISSION MOUNT,
TIMIMG COVER SEALS,
HARMONIC BALANCER

The exhaust, cold air intake, throttle body and 'bigger cams' are the only real performance mods on that list.
Exhaust is easy enough to check, but on an older car I would not expect anything more than 10-12hp at the wheels extra.
The cold air intake might be worth something, small gains there.
The throttle body, have you checked to see if it actually is oversize?
And the cam...do you KNOW its aftermarket?

These are merely questions I pose to help you find your answer.

[Patti2912]

Thanks for that man, THATS a helpful answer that i appreciate.
The throttle body has been checked and is a larger size, can't remember the exact dimensions though but thats been confirmed.
And as far as i know with the cams are after market, but im not 100% sure.
Can i check this or is it something only the person who installed would know.

[Brett_jjj]

Id just make sure everything has been serviced thoroughly, including the auto trans filter and fluid,the petrol,air and oil filters,spark plugs and leads, and the 3 ignition coils, and if any idler or tensioner pulley bearings are old ,replace the bearings or the complete assembly.These bearings, when old, can cause noticeable drag on the engine.This also includes the AC compressor bearing,the alternator bearings and the water pump bearings,and the power steering pump.Also worth checking is for any seized brake calipers which are pretty common on these cars.(usually the rear).A seized brake caliper will sometimes not retract away from the disk properly,this can cause the pad to lightly touch the disk which causes drag.Also check wheel bearings,if they have a couple of hunderd thousand k's on them,its worth replacing them.The wheel alignment is another thing that should be checked regularly to get the best handling or "feel" ,and good tyre life,but with the least possible rolling resistance. Id be doing a compression test on the engine to get an idea of the life its got left in it.The compression is an excellent indicator of engine wear,and the older the engine ,the more wear,the less power it makes.I also use 98 octane fuel in my VS V6. I find the car runs noticeably better on this fuel,and the economy is a lot better,even though the 98 octane fuel costs more,it works out cheaper for me in the long run,I use less which ultimately costs me less.And lastly,a tune.Its worth contacing delcowizzid or greenfoam on here about a performance chip to suit your engine mods etc to get the most out of them.

[Patti2912]

Hey thanks man, killer info, ill get right on that.
In regards to the performance chips, i've heard of these, and read up a little about them, how exactly do i go about purchasing/getting one installed? Also about deciding what to go for, or is that just a matter of talking to an expert about my car specification?

[VT-565]

Thanks for that man, THATS a helpful answer that i appreciate.
The throttle body has been checked and is a larger size, can't remember the exact dimensions though but thats been confirmed.
And as far as i know with the cams are after market, but im not 100% sure.
Can i check this or is it something only the person who installed would know.

To check the cam part number, you would have to go most the way to pulling it out.
Usually they come as a 'cam and chip package' so I'm not sure, there may be some way of i.d'ing that on the back of the chip in the ecu?

[Patti2912]

Thanks for that, ill check it out.
If all else fails ill get back onto the seller.

Cheers.

[Brett_jjj]

The performance chip just replaces your standard one in the ECU,It just unplugs from the board in the ECU.It takes about 5 minutes to swap over.Just contact either delcowizzid for V6 stuff,or greenfoam for the V8's.There is also another guy,Dr bob,who I think does both V6 and V8 chips,They are all members here,and will be able to sort you out Im sure.Just private message them,or if no luck maybe post a thead about it.Ive heard they can be hard to get hold of sometimes.

[Patti2912]

Thanks buddy, ill look into it.

[Raremetal]

It's pretty easy to do, in most cases just a matter of squirting in the injector cleaner. Google a how to and it will show you exactly how its supposed to be done, and the do's and dont's. Simply, the main purpose is to clean all of the built up additives that are left (and dry) on the injectors from the last bit of petrol left on them when you turn off your car. Also goes through and cleans everything connected to them.
It is supposed to give you better fuel consumption (if they're dirty/clogged), and increase performance as the injectors are able to inject the petrol out without having to push or force it to get through any build ups.
Also i've found that it makes the acceleration a hell of a lot smoother.

Hey Phatty2912

A few months back I had a bottle of cleaning something, I can't remember the name. And I just put it in when the car was nearly empty - it sounds like the same thing you just described. I sopose something along the lines of "Injector Cleaner" lol. Now, my VR has been (of late) not getting as much Ks as it should out of a tank. 68ls and it normally gets 550ks+ but its only getting about 460ks. I read somewhere that it could be the oxy sensors? or maybe blocked/clogged/dirty fuel lines? Maybe I should throw another cleaner in the tank and see if it makes it better?

Cheers for your advice.
Rare.

[RazzaCaine]

.I also use 98 octane fuel in my VS V6. I find the car runs noticeably better on this fuel,and the economy is a lot better,even though the 98 octane fuel costs more,it works out cheaper for me in the long run,I use less which ultimately costs me less.And lastly,a tune.Its worth contacing delcowizzid or greenfoam on here about a performance chip to suit your engine mods etc to get the most out of them.

just a question for you Brett_jjj with the 98 octane fuel do you have a delcowizzid (or similar) chip on your car to run this fuel? i always thought that the factory memcal was set up to run on 91 octane and hence using any higher octane fuel wouldnt make much of a difference? can you correct me if im wrong here? how much of a difference does it make to fuel economy running the 98?? id consider using it if its going to be cheaper in the long run

[vsspack]

Just so your aware, Your car only has one cam... its a commodore.
Bigger throttle body and CAI on a v6 dont make the car any faster, mabey make it drive nicer but wont make any real difference to actual performance .
Its dual fuel so you will loose some performance there.

[wikky]

The platform you've started with isn't the best canvas for performance. The few things that have been done won't make much difference at all. As stated above, maybe your expectations are a tad high. You can make many small changes but at the end of the day it's still a near stock VS V6. FWIW it probably runs really well for a VS.

[Patti2912]

Hey Phatty2912

A few months back I had a bottle of cleaning something, I can't remember the name. And I just put it in when the car was nearly empty - it sounds like the same thing you just described. I sopose something along the lines of "Injector Cleaner" lol. Now, my VR has been (of late) not getting as much Ks as it should out of a tank. 68ls and it normally gets 550ks+ but its only getting about 460ks. I read somewhere that it could be the oxy sensors? or maybe blocked/clogged/dirty fuel lines? Maybe I should throw another cleaner in the tank and see if it makes it better?
.

I have heard that your not supposed to do it to an empty, or near empty tank, but i have never been able to confirm if thats a problem 100% (if anyone can verify, please do), but i think what you described is correct about the fuel lines, id suggest giving them a clean out as well.
Research a couple of different cleaners as some have different purposes. In saying that, it could be a number of other things non related to where the cleaners reach as always.

[Patti2912]

The platform you've started with isn't the best canvas for performance. The few things that have been done won't make much difference at all. As stated above, maybe your expectations are a tad high. You can dress it up all you like but at the end of the day it's still a near stock VS V6.

Anything you could possibly suggest?

[Raremetal]

I have heard that your not supposed to do it to an empty, or near empty tank, but i have never been able to confirm if thats a problem 100% (if anyone can verify, please do), but i think what you described is correct about the fuel lines, id suggest giving them a clean out as well.
Research a couple of different cleaners as some have different purposes. In saying that, it could be a number of other things non related to where the cleaners reach as always.

Yeah, I put it in like 50ks after the light came on. So it was pretty empty. Yeah I'll ask about it tomorrow. Cheers for the help.


Rare.

[Patti2912]

Just so your aware, Your car only has one cam... its a commodore.
Bigger throttle body and CAI on a v6 dont make the car any faster, mabey make it drive nicer but wont make any real difference to actual performance .
Its dual fuel so you will loose some performance there.

Well thats a big shock..
Turns out i don't know nearly as much as i thought i did then..
Thanks man.

[Andrew426]

You need a tune to suit the modification.

Im not guessing or making this up, I know this from experience.

My VR with worked heads and roller rockers drove pretty much the same as a stock VR, and the temp would shoot right up at high rpm (like 90 seconds from C to past H). But then Delcowizid stuck a wideband oxygen sensor in the exhaust, plugged some computers and stuff into the car and we drove around for a few hours. Then he went home and made me up a tune.

The result was ####ing impressive.

[Patti2912]

You need a tune to suit the modification.
.

So i would more or less need to tune the car up around the mods to see any further kind of increase?
Makes sense..
I contacted him about a chip, might discuss what he recommends as well.
Thanks for the advice bro.