Dodgy VR Key

[Grunt1969]

Ok ,first sorry if i"am going over old problems i have searched "new key" "VR wont start" and read as much as i can.Just got a VR V8 ute 5 spd dual fuel unregistered.It has a NEW KEY from locksmith/mr minit.The original key rubber buttons wore out as usual.New black head with unlock and lock buttons was supplied but old key bit unsrewed from original and used.The key will not lock or unlock car and when put into ignition, the reader makes good contact with silver rim but will not crank.Red lights on dash and security light flashing(No Check Engine light). Leave key on for 1 hour , engine will crank but not fire.Remove spark plug and check spark (got a good kick,missus thought it was real funny) seems to be no fuel.Have checked fuses under drivers side dash and checked fuses under bonnet and change around relays, but still will not fire.I have tryed the paperclip diagnostic trick with no success.Bridge pin 5 & 6 , turn key twice to red lights, No Check Engine light.Thermo fan kicks in, fuel pump , battery light, oil light , handbrake etc No Check engine light at all, let alone flash.
If anyone has any suggestions or thoughts would be great, as i'am resolved to getting it towed 120 kms to my nearest Holden dealer for a new key.
P.S if anyone has a list of fuses for under the dash, that would be handy as there is no cover with id.
Thanks
Grunt

[hako]

If you are still in possesion of the the old keyhead, try to use it to lock unlock the car and see if it starts - this presumes the only problem with it is the buttons were worn off....you can still use 'something' to press the buttons on the actual keyhead circuit board..

[Grunt1969]

Thanks Hako, yes i have the original black head, i have just tryed and it did not work,thanks anyway.
Original key only has 1 button compared to new has 2 (lock and unlock).
The new key was purchased from locksmith/mr minit in Ruthven st Toowoomba.Previous owner is not good with details.He vaguely remembers the guy telling him to put new key in ignition and turn on to red lights and hold unlock button for 30 seconds then it should be good.

[Brett_jjj]

If both key fobs are completely dead,you will need to see holden who can program a new key using the security code that holden dealers can access online using your cars VIN.What I dont get is why the car doesnt start after the 45 minute bypass period.It should allow you to start the car,so you can drive it to where you have to go ,to get it fixed.The red security light will also stop flashing when its ready to start.Id say there could something wrong with the BCM or maybe even the ECU..Ive come across this before with faulty BCM's not letting the car start after the bypass period has passed..Especially if the security light doesnt stop flashing after the 45 minutes.You might have to get another second hand BCM and the matching keyfob and try that.The BCM and keyfob have to come from the same car,because their security codes will then match which disarms the immobiliser.

[Grunt1969]

Thanks for that Brett, after the 45 minutes the security light does stop flashing, car will crank but wont fire.
Local Holden dealer says that they need the old key fob plus the car to reprogramme key? Is this correct or can i supply key and VIN?
Thanks

[hako]

Maybe your ute doesn't have central locking as most utes don't so you will always need to use the key in the door, however re the non-working immobiliser, maybe you'd be better off getting a 2nd hand BCM and the keyhead that matches it from either a wrecker or someone with an old VR/VS Commodore sitting out the back. This would probably cost a lot less than a trip to Holdens where they have you under their control and charge an arm and a leg. Good Luck.

[Brett_jjj]

I cant see why the holden dealer there cant use the VIN to get your cars security code online, any other holden dealer can do this..Once they get the security code,they then need your car because they use a Tech1 scantool to do the actual key programming which has to be connected to the cars ALDL connector...Also seeing that the flashing security light on the dash is turning off after the 45 minutes,and the car still wont start,Id say its either the BCM is faulty,or possibly the ECU.Id try a second hand BCM and matching keyfob next.Its a shame you arent near me,I could have scanned the BCM for error codes,or programmed a new key for free.All you need is a new $40 keyfob from ebay.Also the BCM's come in 3 different flavours.Theres low,medium and high level BCM's.Make sure you look at yours first to see what level or type it is.Some of them are not interchangeable.

[The1]

have you tried swapping the bulbs around from a known working one to get engine light working? Im in oakey bit closer than Brett and could help with a key but still a fair way away from kingaroy.

[Grunt1969]

Thanks to all for the info and offers, took your advice Brett and tryed to source a second hand BCM & matching key.Easy said than done.After ringing about a dozen wreckers with no success, i thought i would bite the bullet and try holden and buy a new one. What a joke! Anyway after another couple of hours,finally found one in Beenleigh for $85 delivered.My BCM is 787 ute, no low ,medium or high, this being the problem.
Another Holden dealer said the same thing about new key, need the car as well to scn and programme.Can't just use VIN.
Haven't tryed the bulb change as yet, The1 Only got the ute yesterday arvo.
Haven't searched as yet, but any special thing with changing BCM and key?

[Brett_jjj]

Another Holden dealer said the same thing about new key, need the car as well to scn and programme.Can't just use VIN.

I didnt explain it very clearly,sorry, ,the dealers cant just program a new key without the car there,,they need your car there so they can plug in their Tech1 scantool to program a new key with it..They use you VIN to get this security code to enter into the scantool .Holden cant just program a new key using the VIN,they need the car there too.This was only if your 2 ignition keys are flat.The only was to get a new key if your old ones are dead flat is with the security code through holden,like Ive said,(with the car there).Even mr minit etc cant program new keys without a working old key.(unless you know the security code for your vehicle).

[Grunt1969]

Today i received bcm & matching fob and have installed with no success, maybe a little. Immobiliser is switched off by button, key in the ignition and turn to start, engine cranks but wont fire.Again check all fuses and swap relays around, replace 15 amp fuse in slot 1 under dash. Still no fire.
Back to the drawing board.
I have a read about Crank angle sensors not allowing engine to start, so i beleive i need to remove instrument cluster and check bulb on Engine check lamp so that i can run a diagnostic for error codes.
I have just purchased a Max Ellery workshop manual, so i have some reading to do on how to remove the cluster?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks

[karlos vs]

did you have any luck? or manage to fix it? because it sounds like my vs and im stumped!