shudder? done a search but need to put my case to people

[fonzo]

Got a vs berlina . manual. lsd.
Lsd is about 10000km old so its new. tailshaft god knows. box was fine when installed.
it shudders as i take off and in reverse . and at i feel it threw the steeringwheel when i change second. almost like the cars stalled as i go into second thats kinda the feeling it makes and the steering wheel feels like its about to go threw the roof. its only really on take off. no shudder once u come off the clutch and do say 3000rpm and kick it in the guts its smooth as. now its a vs series 1 t5 is it ment to run oil or dexron3 with lubrizol. it also seems like the thrust bearing is making a knockin noise. when u psuh the clutch in and out it comes and goes. also on take off a u hear the odd "ting" coming from under the car. lookin at doing a heap of km soon so i wanna fix the problemo. thanks guys

[hako]

Sounds a bit like engine mounts either soft, sagged or sheared.

[fonzo]

brand new when conversion was done in april?

[jetboy]

Spigot bearing ??? is this a conversion from auto to manual ??? anyways id be lookin in that area , maybe even pressure plate

[fonzo]

i changed the spiggot. yes is from auto to manual. sorry i should of added when the conversion was done it was smooth as silk. its only now its shuddering. about 30,000km later

[cander24]

Is the shuddering worse if you let the clutch slip alot when you take off. Good change you need the flywhel machined as they often warp and give a shudder similar to what you've mentioned.

[Tom_1569]

Warped flywheel.
Maching will do nothing, it will get warm and be back to square one.

Excedy make a replacement flywheel for around $750-800 or can get a chinese one for around the $400 mark from memory. Not_an_abba_fan is able to get the chinese ones.

My ute does the same, cant justify the flywheel + clutch money on it at the moment (over a grand) so I'm just gonna live with it, until this clutch goes pop.

[fonzo]

if i load it up to take off it doesnt seem so bad

[fonzo]

seems to have less pull also......running fine no area codes. not popping and farting just boot it and the shudder seems to soak up the power till u get into higher revs. if i the clutch out without using accellerator and let it roll it will shudder slow. soon as i plant it its shuddering hard till about 3000 or so rpm

[jetboy]

I should get up earlier , as mentioned , Flywheel . Most likely got hot spots on it , no need for a new one get it machined by sumone who specializes in doing them , the trick prior to machining is to heat the whole thing up so as to normalise the metal , then wrap it in a blanket and allow it to cool ,. then machine . chuck in a new good quality clutch an ur done

[tezza]

Mine has a bit of shudder every now and then depending on the load, the amount of slip. Not bad enough to annoy me or warrant a flywheel change or machine.

Giving it more revs and slipping it more will improve it.

[fonzo]

Mine has a bit of shudder every now and then depending on the load, the amount of slip. Not bad enough to annoy me or warrant a flywheel change or machine.

Giving it more revs and slipping it more will improve it.

Mines ####eddddd.......lol review mirror shakes

[tezza]

Ok well pony up some money and get the flywheel machined and clutch replaced.

[bpefi]

Dunno about the posts on machining the flywheel here - I have been machining flywheels std & custom for many years & never had to heat one at all - never had one come back with shuddering - I did probably 4 a day for many years - a lot of them where Toyota cruisers that would come in just blue from the heat - I used to use a top of the line brake lathe & keep cutting until the hot spots where gone completely - if you use a grinder on a mill like some do (leaves a circular mark) the hot spot is still there usually.

Usually no warranty on your clutch without machining. If the vibes are that bad it could be a failed spigot & if it isn't it could cause the spigot to fail - possibly. Get someone to check it out & do a quote & get your mounts checked as well. If your hard on clutches - I used to do a mod same as the brake discs & drill the flywheel & countersink the holes - works well - gets rid of dust & shuddering & cools things down a bit. Good luck

[markovr]

My bearing retainer had a lot of wear on it from the throwout bearing and the old pressure plate had pretty wide wear marks on the fingers almost to the point of wearing right through.I t had a shudder and I found the spigot had come loose and was spinning in the crank...new one was loctited in after I soaked it in oil....used a excedy clutch and it seemed good for a while but the shudder had returned.I intend pulling it out again and changing the retainer and throwout bearing but the shudder is annoying....seems to more pronounced when its warm....never considered that the face of the flywheel had hotspots.....i never got it real hot but it does make sense

[cander24]

Warped flywheel.
Maching will do nothing, it will get warm and be back to square one.

Um, that's not correct. There's nothing wrong with machining solid fly's. If they warp soon after being machined i'd be looking more into driving style rather and blaming the success of maching

[nathanVY]

Live axle yeah? Try replacing the upper trailing arms on the diff, if the bushes are old and crappy it causes a shudder on take off. about $100 for a set of new ones, fit them yourself in 5 minutes.

EDIT: $100 for a new set of arms inc. bushes

[vscalaishsv]

Live axle yeah? Try replacing the upper trailing arms on the diff, if the bushes are old and crappy it causes a shudder on take off. about $100 for a set of new ones, fit them yourself in 5 minutes.

EDIT: $100 for a new set of arms inc. bushes

my old vs 5 speed that my dad now drives has the same problem its got a new clutch, machined fly wheel, got the tailshaft rebuilt (rebalanced and new everything for it) took the top trailing arms out and the bushes was compleatly gone, (the middle of them fell out) replaced them and still got the shudder.

[Tom_1569]

Um, that's not correct. There's nothing wrong with machining solid fly's. If they warp soon after being machined i'd be looking more into driving style rather and blaming the success of maching

Of course, How could I forget those 7000rpm clutch dumps, twat.
From my understanding from what the machinist explained to me... The whole flywheel will be warped to some degree, you are only machining the surface and it would be impossible to straighten the entire flywheel, so as soon as it gets hot again it just warps again from the existing hot spots. This can easily be proven with Brake rotors which is why most people advise you not to machine warped rotors now, I dont see why this doesnt work the same for the flywheel, considering as soon as my clutch got warm it was straight back to where it was before it was machined. If you can drive over Mt Hotham and not get your brakes or clutch warm, please do let me know how you do it, with skills like yours they could remove the run off points for people with hot brakes etc.

[bpefi]

Of course, How could I forget those 7000rpm clutch dumps, twat.
From my understanding from what the machinist explained to me... The whole flywheel will be warped to some degree, you are only machining the surface and it would be impossible to straighten the entire flywheel, so as soon as it gets hot again it just warps again from the existing hot spots. This can easily be proven with Brake rotors which is why most people advise you not to machine warped rotors now, I dont see why this doesnt work the same for the flywheel, considering as soon as my clutch got warm it was straight back to where it was before it was machined. If you can drive over Mt Hotham and not get your brakes or clutch warm, please do let me know how you do it, with skills like yours they could remove the run off points for people with hot brakes etc.

There are many reasons for disc rotors shuddering - one is people NOT using tension wrenches on the wheel nuts & distorting the rotor - another is people not checking for run out when fitting new rotors on the hubs. Sometimes rotors need to be machined on car because the hub has run out & the rotor wont run straight. When I was with Mazda we had this problem & used to do a light skim on Pre delivery to stop problems. The main problem with machining discs is that people do not find the original problem so it just happens again. Calipers seize up & the pads drag & cause excessive heat & scalloping of the rotor - there are many different things that cause shudders in Brakes - shudders in clutches are far different & are mainly caused as there is no cool air coming into the bell housing.

Buildup of heat is the problem in both situations. Once a piece of metal is warped it does not return to its original shape - it just keeps warping with further applications of heat & it goes where it wants to. 99% of the time its not warping that is the problem but high & low spots from scalloping. When I used to machine flywheels I used a lathe to remove all the hot spots as until this is done you can still see it & it will always be slightly higher than the surrounding metal - most people grind them & then you cant tell if the hot spots is still there. There is nothing wrong with machining either flywheels or rotors at all - most times though prices have come down on rotors & they just replace them. They have machined flywheels & rotors / drums for many years without any problems at all. The only problem you will ever have is no enough meat on the unit & some manufacturers are going very thin with their products which is not good as the thinner they are the harder they are to machine & ultimately warp-age can happen with heat . I have never had to do a warranty on a flywheel or brake rotor - never had a complaint that was valid against the machining - it was always that the original problem had not been fixed correctly.

[jetboy]

Dunno about the posts on machining the flywheel here - I have been machining flywheels std & custom for many years & never had to heat one at all - never had one come back with shuddering - I did probably 4 a day for many years - a lot of them where Toyota cruisers that would come in just blue from the heat - I used to use a top of the line brake lathe & keep cutting until the hot spots where gone completely - if you use a grinder on a mill like some do (leaves a circular mark) the hot spot is still there usually.

Usually no warranty on your clutch without machining. If the vibes are that bad it could be a failed spigot & if it isn't it could cause the spigot to fail - possibly. Get someone to check it out & do a quote & get your mounts checked as well. If your hard on clutches - I used to do a mod same as the brake discs & drill the flywheel & countersink the holes - works well - gets rid of dust & shuddering & cools things down a bit. Good luck

If u read my post correctly you will note that i said "most likely hot spots " . In reference to the heating of the flywheel ( an yes maybe i wasnt clear enough for u ) was for if in fact it was warped an if u know your shit like u claim to ( sorry seem to ) then you would know tht by heating the whole flywheel to the same temp it will "normalise" it there fore removing the warp :P dont belive me go spend sum time in an engineering facility , a real one not joe blow round the corner in a pokey little shop , im talkin where they manufacture shit with real Fitter an Turners and

[jetboy]

^^^^^^^^^^^LEARN.......................if u stop learnin you mayas well be dead , no-one knows everything

[bpefi]

If u read my post correctly you will note that i said "most likely hot spots " . In reference to the heating of the flywheel ( an yes maybe i wasnt clear enough for u ) was for if in fact it was warped an if u know your shit like u claim to ( sorry seem to ) then you would know tht by heating the whole flywheel to the same temp it will "normalise" it there fore removing the warp :P dont belive me go spend sum time in an engineering facility , a real one not joe blow round the corner in a pokey little shop , im talkin where they manufacture shit with real Fitter an Turners and

I believe you totally - never had an argument with that - the point was I never had to do it & I never had a failure - because its mostly not warp age that is the problem.

If I had to go to the point of normalizing a flywheel with heat I would probably replace it immediately. I would always check the unworn parts of a flywheel for run out first with a dial gauge & really I have never come across anything that was warped - surface stuffed yes.

There are many reasons for getting shudders which people do not know about - the following will give you some ideas of what goes on.

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...iki/Disc_brake

Problem is most people just throw rotors on with out checking for run out with a dial gauge & they should especially for hat style units. Even mechanics do the same throw a new set of pads in & push it out the door. No torque tensioning of wheel nuts - no checking of run out no checking of calipers especially slides for the caliper with resulting drag on one side.
No one fits cold air intakes for them - plenty for the engine intake though.

[bpefi]

^^^^^^^^^^^LEARN.......................if u stop learnin you mayas well be dead , no-one knows everything

That is so bl~~~y true - I am 52 & the best thing about being a trades person is that you do something different every day & anyone that doesn't learn something from it is brain dead or drug f***ed... For the first time in my life I have the time & the resource (internet) & I have learned a hell of a lot - especially over the last couple of years...answered all those questions that have been nagging at me - would have been nice to have all this 20 years ago actually...

[jetboy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ B.T.W i dont think anyone would bother with a warped flywheel , i know i centianly would'nt , an i wasnt tryin to argue i was just merrily pointing how how one can be rectfied. Cheers