Something for tech heads - VT into VS

[bpefi]

I have a dual fuel vs v6 with auto in a 93 Hilux - memcal has dual maps for petrol & LPG - the motor has now died & thinking about going with a VT engine / trans combo for a number of reasons.

#1 apparently better auto - can anyone tell me what mods would be required like tail shaft lengths or if it is just an upgraded VS box.

#2 It has the EGR system - which according to research & personal experience I have will give up to 20% more fuel economy.

#3 more refined tune hopefully especially on the LPG side of things...

My ute has a module to talk with the PCM to enable it to start so I need to know if VT & VS security codes are the same

If anyone has a link to a thread on this conversion done elsewhere it would be appreciated - I already will have to go right through the wiring as the person who did the install did a shoddy job.

Is there any other advantages or disadvantages of going this way while I have it all in pieces anyway.

Does vt have higher compressions which would be advantageous for LPG??

Is the VS computer system the same as the VT other than the VT having the EGR ??

I might be able to actuate the EGR through another method rather than use the VT software if its too hard & just stick with the VS EFI system.

I really need to know what differences their is with the Autos - can I run both models on the same PCM

I don't have a lot of cash to throw around & I need to spend what I have wisely. I just thought that it would be quicker & easier to throw something in from the wreckers which would give me the spare motor to build how I want slowly & then I can switch them back later (would love to build a 4.2L stroker)

Seeing that I use this too tow I have also thought of going manual 5 speed does anyone have any idea of whats involved in converting it to manual ?? ( I don't want Getrag box) - I know all the basics - but I need to know tail shaft length differences basically & whats going to cost real money.

So any help would be greatly appreciated even if its info on a later model - V8 is not an option.

[jetboy]

If you've got a VS II ecotec in it allready going to a VT I ecotec would be a walk in the park the are essentially the exact same . Some minor things will need to be addressed but will bolt up exact same an tailshaft shouldnt be a problem .

[bpefi]

If you've got a VS II ecotec in it allready going to a VT I ecotec would be a walk in the park the are essentially the exact same . Some minor things will need to be addressed but will bolt up exact same an tailshaft shouldnt be a problem .

I do not know exactly which model though I was told it was a 95 model - any ideas on identification for the two units?? - I thought that it would be easy - though wasn't sure.

[jetboy]

Does it have a plastic cover on it , also is the power steering resovior seperate from the pump

[bpefi]

Does it have a plastic cover on it , also is the power steering resovior seperate from the pump

Yes - thought all vs where like this

[jetboy]

Nope only the ones with an ecotech in em , first if the VS still ran the VR setup.

[jetboy]

So ud be right just throwing in a vt ecotech insist on getting the wiring loom and E.C.U an youll be sweet as

[bpefi]

So the VT should look the same other than the EGR ?? Series 1 VT gearbox is it better in any way or same box???

[jetboy]

As far as im aware ( my cuz is big wig mechanic at holden ) VS II and VT I have the exact same running gear . Just minor upgrades , the skeletons the same . My father in law has a VS II an i have a VT I to look at they are identical .

[soop]

Never seen a VS with a buick motor in it.

[RX25SE]

Nope only the ones with an ecotech in em , first if the VS still ran the VR setup.

Incorrect.

All VS were fitted with ecotec.

[jetboy]

Incorrect.

All VS were fitted with ecotec.

That is true , according to facts . But i have personally seen two and owned one , how they became to be there i dont know

[soop]

Would make more sense to say they were VR's with different badges and indicators. As that's essentially the only difference.

[jetboy]

Vins were VS

[soop]

Strange, I guess there's no chance of a couple of photos?

[jetboy]

Nah they long gone , some twat prob blew the donks an had a VR one layin round an just threw that in instead stranger things have been known to happen . its neverr crossed my mind till now that sumpin was amiss

[soop]

You wouldn't pass rego like that though and the engine management is totally different. Which makes it harder then its worth.

[jetboy]

I didnt do it , up here in qld they'll put anything on the road , who knows maybe they were rebirths , i dunno the one i had was wrecked i used the back on a cut 'n' shut , the one i saw i put a belt on remembering now there was confusion at parts joint for the belt

[cander24]

Ok a few points. Yes the vt box is stronger than the vs. It will run perfect of the vs pcm with a minor wiring change on the box and you'll most likely have to remove a small amount of alloy on the bellhousing to allow it to clear your exhaust.
Tailshaft length required is the same so just use your existing vs tailshaft.
EGR won't improve fuel economy. It was introduced in the vt onwards to meet emissions requirements. There is one plug to the egr unit which obviously won't exist in a vs harness. Therefore in my opinion if you use a vt motor you're better off fitting the existing vs inlet manifold, plenum and passenger side exhaust manifold to the vt motor. By this, you'll avoid the need to run a vt engine harness and pcm by doing away with the egr setup.
As for the module to replace the standard bcm, it depends on how they were linked. Some work differently. Rather than do this it's usually easier to just have a tuner remove the VATS from the pcm memcal and this does away with the need to use a bcm or replace it with something in a conversion like this (this is what I do).
vs and vt ecotec compression ratio are the same.
How are you currently working the cluster temp gauge? I assume you're using the standard vs temp sender which is located in the inlet manifold just under the thermostat with a single green wire and black clip to it? This temp sender does not exist in vt onwards so you would have to drill and tap this sender into the vt manifold if you used it (i.e. another advantage of using your vs manifold).
There's plenty of threads around here on manual conversions, but just a few points. Off the top of my head you'll need a v6 t5 box with v6 bellhousing (since you dont want the getrag), flywheel and clutch kit, v6 clutch cable, manual gearbox cross member, manual starter motor, vs series 1 manual engine haness (speed sensor plug is different on the series 2 getrag), new tune to suit the manual box, manual tailshaft (the front half of the shaft from the centre bearing forward is longer than auto and has a different front yoke), manual pedal box and probably a few other bits and pieces I cant think of right now.
Since there's no great benefit, performance or otherwise, in going with a vt motor and since you already have a dual tune on the vs setup, I think you'd be best to use your existing pcm and wiring setup and to use the vt motor just swap the p/s exhaust manifold, inlet manifold and plenum as I mentioned earlier.
Hope that helps and give you a few more ideas.
Cheers.
Chris

[jetboy]

^^^^^^^^^^^ well said

[bpefi]

Thanks for the in depth post Chris it confirms what I was thinking about fitting the VT combo - though your statement about the E.G.R. in std format may or may not be right - E.G.R in theory & especially cooled E.G.R reduces pumping losses & also allows leaner mixtures & advanced timing - your statement is certainly valid for the first wave of E.G.R devices - but properly implemented & controlled E.G.R (with today's computer systems) can be very beneficial. It will reduce pumping losses & the flow on effect is better fuel economy.

There are a number of websites supporting this inc Auto speed & actually have articles on how to modify them for more increased flow. Being that I am on LPG & I have high combustion temps - E.G.R would cool them down & possibly reduce the problem with valves a bit.....couple of links below

http://www.me.utexas.edu/~sae/Files/...e_fuels_V1.pdf


Next Generation Ford EcoBoost to Offer Cooled EGR; Exploring More Advanced Turbocharging, Ethanol Options | FavStocks


DailyTech - With the Addition of Cooled EGR, Ford Has a Gas Engine to Rival Diesels

[vscom88]

Nope only the ones with an ecotech in em , first if the VS still ran the VR setup.

first of the vs was 1995, introduction of the ecotec, there was NO such thing as a buick engine in a VS.

[bpefi]

Whats the VT engine then - is it the same right through the model??? Also the extra wiring for the VT auto - can anyone elaborate on that at all??

[vscom88]

vt, different pulleys, computer, bigger sump, egr setup, higher compression n so on

what more do you want to know? The wiring loom for vs n vt is different but it can easily be modified.. very very easily

[jetboy]

Just a point . The ecotec is still a Buick , Holden just gave it a fancy name :P