Mechanic stuffed my engine

[bpefi]

Hey - I have a vs engine in a Hilux - I had a sump gasket replaced a month or so ago by a certain workshop as it was leaking. It had a noise in the engine beforehand that came & went & I assumed it was lifters at the time because of this.

I changed engine oil to a 10w30 & it was really quiet for a long time though before it went in for repairs & a similar noise came in probably 400 k after the sump gasket was replaced. I couldn't get rid of the noise after the sump gasket was done & it got worse rapidly. So I pulled the heads & timing case off & have not been able to find anything wrong.

I found a major problem after pulling the engine out in that there was silastic smeared over the oil pickup severely restricting oil flow. At this stage I do not even know whats wrong with the engine - though I am suspecting bearing problems.

After speaking with him - he claims that there was loose silastic all over the pickup when he took the sump off & I could understand that considering the other dodgy work that I have had to fix from the person that did the conversion.

I don't want to go with something secondhand as that just opens another can of worms potentially & I want something setup for LPG. I am taking it to a machinist that works by himself & does fantastic work. Being independent he can be a referee on the situation as well as do the work - hes also cheap & doesn't put anything on his parts (dunno how he makes money though like this) he is also working through Christmas - so the engine should be ready for when the other guy that did the sump gasket can refit it to the car when they restart after Christmas.

The guy that did the sump has agreed to come to the party after seeing the oil pickup & the silastic on it.

Considering that I was always expecting to have to do something with the heads & timing chain as it has 160,000 k on the clock - I am expecting to have to pay something along the way & I was thinking along the lines of paying for head overhaul / the timing chain & any modifications for the LPG side of things.

So I guess what I am asking is - who has had experience with this sort of problem before & what do you expect to be the problem with the noise - would the restriction cause lifter noise??

What does everyone think that the guy who did the sump should pay for "realistically".

Considering I have had to remove the motor & strip it down & also take it in for inspection & repairs..??? Basically he has agreed to pay for anything related to the oil restriction problem & refit the engine.

Your considered thoughts would be appreciated...

[deanos70]

i would be looking at the bearing shells first if it was me
if your oil pickup was a bit blocked the bearing shells would run a bit dry and get hot causing a knocking noise

[Brett_jjj]

If the silastic was blocking the oil pickup flow enough to make the oil pressure drop,then yeah,the lifters will rattle,and if the oil pressure was low enough for a time,its probably done damage to the bearings including the cam bearings ,the balance shaft bearings and the main and conrod bearings.All you can really do is either pull it apart and inspect it all,or if its still running,Check the hot and cold oil pressures and do a compression test as well.If the guy who did the sump is a qualified mechanic,then he should know better than anyone that engines have to be assembled in a clean area so things like bits of silicon dont get into sumps etc.Even if it is just dropping a sump.

[nathanVY]

At least the guy has agreed to pay cover your costs, theres plenty of arsehole mechanics out there that would just call BS and not give you a cent.

[Brett_jjj]

Yeah,gotta give the guy credit there at least.

[soop]

If he's going to cop to it, why even leave it there in the first place?

Silly mistake. But oh well.
Hopefully the crank is alright.

[bpefi]

Seeing its in a 93 Hilux 2wd you don't need to take the motor out - the cross member is removable - 4 bolts - so it can be done in the car - you don't even need to lift the engine at all.They put a hell of a lot of silastic on the sump gasket & I would say hes clipped the pickup when putting the sump back up - normally it wouldn't be a problem with any other engine but on these the tube protrudes up into the mesh filter - it was just in the wrong spot which was right in front of the pickup hole & it was just slightly larger than the tube. Unfortunately hes got several young mechanics & its been a series of stuff ups every time I take the car in - had LPG fitted & it came out running on both fuels - then the shocks hit the tank bracket & wrecked them - then the rear brake hose was rubbing on the tank & had to take that back in twice to get it sorted finally. But he does look after me & pay for what he should - when things go wrong - which is why I go back there - I only get them to do what I cant or do not have time to do - if I was a bit fitter & had somewhere setup to work I would do it all myself. So I suppose I will find out all next week sometime when I take it in - though I might just lift a cap off here & see if I can see anything. Its got me intrigued wondering what I am up against..

[soop]

It might be easier to just find another motor. They're not really worth money these days. Hell we sold a whole VS wagon for $500.

If you're going to spend the time and quid to rebuild, its almost not worth doing a standard rebuild.

[jetboy]

who in their right mind would use salastic in the first fricken place

[soop]

Me?
Well sikaflex.

If you use it properly there's no issue.

[bpefi]

Well it might get to this - but of course it depends on what is wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with top end.. not even a lip in the bore... piston bore clearance is good. I do want something modified for LPG though - which means valves & seats & higher compressions - can get exchange heads inc gaskets & new bolts for $850 to my door. So that wasn't that bad - I suppose its up to him as well - if its a crank grind & new bearings that's not too bad. I just want something that is a known value if you know what I mean - if I get something else & its got problems then I have to go through the whole process again. Apparently there is no probs getting a bottom end as everything the wreckers has - has the heads off of it - looking for good heads. The one thing that got me is that the pistons are nearly proud of the block & they are usually at least a mm below - though it hasn't been cleaned as yet & still got a bit of carbon on it. I am going for a look see now - been hot as hell up here today - humidity through the roof - looks like more rain on the way... getting sick of that ..

[MasterOfReality]

Me?
Well sikaflex.

If you use it properly there's no issue.

I remember watching a mate rebuild a 308.

Anywhere a gasket went he would lay a fat snake of silastic/gasket sealant before bolting up.

He would then wipe off all the stuff that squeezed out between the mating surfaces and then bitch about how hard it was to wash off his hands, all the time not thinking about what was happening inside the motor

[soop]

LOL, you don't use it like that.

Put a bit of sikaflex on one surface and smear it all around like vegemite. Then put the gasket down. All it does is help seal a little better. No need to have shit oozing out everywhere.

[bpefi]

Well just had all big end caps off & nothing - everything looks fine - maybe it was only lifters making a noise because of lower oil pressure - though it didn't sound like them & couldn't find a loose one whilst turning the motor over. Couldn't hear anything with rocker covers off.... Bullet proof bottom end though - keep the oil up & you could flog it forever...

[bpefi]

Silaflex is for windscreens - not designed for engines - good quality "sensor safe silastic" is not a problem - just need to use it sparingly. On the EA / B Fords we used to throw away the rubber for the front of the head gaskets & just use a good silastic $50 for a cartridge though - not the cheap stuff - never leaked then.

[soop]

Sikaflex make a product specifically for using in engine assembly.

I wouldn't recommend going to bunnings and grabbing that stuff.

[hako]

If the oil pickup was covered in silastic thereby blocking the oil flow, how come the oil pressure warning light wasn't on? And if the oil pressure warning light was not on, that would suggest that despite the silastic on the pickup screen, sufficient oil was still being delivered to the bearings.

[bpefi]

It wasn't restricted completely - It wouldn't be enough loss to make the light come on - especially at idle - but it certainly wouldn't be enough for the bearings at high revs - light only comes on at 6 lbs or so which is ok for idle - but not for 4 or 5 grand... It quietened down "a bit" when I went to thinner oil & filled the sump a bit more - no one really knows what the oil level should be as it has a modified sump ...Manufacturer of the sump says 6 L previous owner said 5L - 6L seemed a bit much as it was around 1/4" from the top of the sump when I took the timing chain off. The more oil I put in the easier it would be for pump..

"compared to its usual flow" it would be severely restricted..... though it could still draw a bit...bit hard to explain .. may have just been enough loss to let the lifters rattle

[bpefi]

Sikaflex make a product specifically for using in engine assembly.

I wouldn't recommend going to bunnings and grabbing that stuff.

Never seen anything other than the Bunnings stuff - thought that that was what you where talking about - whats the name of the other - should be good if its like the windscreen stuff

[soop]

Ahh its Sikaflex 4077 or something like that, I'll have to confirm it.

[GTP 85]

Its an ecotec so you shouldnt need to use a lot of silastic on the sump? The only place you need to seal up on the bottom end is a light smear on the timing case gasket faces and right in the bottom corners where the timing case/ block/ sump meet.

I assembled my engine myself, didnt use one bit of sealant on the sump itself. Some do it differently and use sealant which is fine, but it only needs the lightest smear. Mine hasnt leaked a drop after a couple thousand kms

[soop]

Yeah admittedly I've only ever used urethane on older motors (Perkins diesels actually).

But you can apply the same logic to anything with a cork gasket.
Also makes fitting exhausts gaskets easy when they want to fall off all the time. (Big drama on engines with individual gaskets for each port!)

[bpefi]

Do they leak down through the sump threads & bolts at all ?? still leaking at the rear somewhere & last 4' of the sides around the gasket area - didn't seem to be rear main - shitload of silastic on it - couldn't see the gasket at all really. I use it most things - awesome as a glue - when I bought my first house - it still had a wood stove - glued it up & it lasted for years that way.

[immortality]

you also need to be careful not to over tighten the sump bolts as this can squeeze out and damage the rubber seal causing leaks. i put a touch of silastic on the bolt threads. it works like loctite but much easier to remove later

[jetboy]

No need for sealants (except where u are told to put it ) , both surfaces must be clean an free of oil/old gasket etc an thats it . You dont see Holden or Ford or Toyota or any other auto manufacturer for that matter smearing fricken salastic all over their engines do you now !! . If your getting oil leaks then you ar'nt following simple instructions , or maybe u just should'nt be doing the job an leave it to sumone that knows wht they are doing .