How to remove fuel pump without removing tank?

[Weza]

Hi Guys.

I'm replacing the fuel pump in my VR and I've been having a hell of a time removing the old one.
It seems the diff and every thing else under there is getting in the way no matter what I try.
I'm trying avoid taking off the tank because that would mean having to remove the tow bar which will be a pain in the arse to put back on.

Is there any way to do this or am i rooted and have to remove the tank?

Any hints on how to do this without removing the tank would be really helpful.

Thanks.
Wez.

[Krisp]

irs or solid axle?

[Darcon666]

VR Sedan = IRS, I believe.

[Krisp]

VR Sedan = IRS, I believe.

not always the case, had a vs sedan with a solid axle

[Darcon666]

not always the case, had a vs sedan with a solid axle

Just seen the OP's RIDE: VR Exec..which is Solid/live axel.

[Brett_jjj]

If its solid axle,just lift the rear end slightly to raise the panhard rod a bit to make room for the pump to come out.When Ive removed them before Im pretty sure Ive turned the pump 90 degrees to get it out of the tank.You also have to remove the return line thats inside the tank,it goes from the swirl pot to the pump assembly.Its a quick connector.Im not to sure about IRS models and if theres enough room to remove them without removing the tank..

[Calaber]

To the OP. I have had the same issue with my VR a few years back. It too had a tow bar but believe me, the difficulty in accessing and removing the pump made it a job that really required the tank being removed. I know some will disagree. There is a small fixed rubber hose inside the tank which is clipped to the pump and retained by a crush-type clamp. If you tried to thread the pump and float out with the tank still in the car, it is virtually impossible to see that hose and reconnect it when putting in the new pump.

The rear bar has to drop, then the tow bar, then the tank. It's a crap job but definitely easier with the tank removed. Good luck.

[Krisp]

irs is too hard to remove the pump in my experience without taking the tank out

[MR.HG]

VR Sedan = IRS, I believe.

VS Berlina w/ live axle here

[justbad4you]

find out which one is stuffed first. unhook the fuel line between the two pumps and crank over the car. if fuel comes out refit the pipe then disconnect the line after the secondary pump and crank over again. if fuel comes out there too then maybe the return line is blocked.Check this by disconnecting the other line connected to the tank. There is one to the pumps and the other line is the return line. Before removing the pumps (if need be), depressurize the system by removing the pump relay and cranking the engine over, or remove fuel cap. as to removing them don't remove the tank as the manuals state. get to them from underneath. someone told me to remove the back seat and theres access there but underneath seems the way to go. It really could be a number of things. Check the relay, and fuel flow to and from the engine before ripping and tearing at the pumps. One of the pumps is $100 the other is $200.

[Krisp]

find out which one is stuffed first. unhook the fuel line between the two pumps and crank over the car. if fuel comes out refit the pipe then disconnect the line after the secondary pump and crank over again. if fuel comes out there too then maybe the return line is blocked.Check this by disconnecting the other line connected to the tank. There is one to the pumps and the other line is the return line. Before removing the pumps (if need be), depressurize the system by removing the pump relay and cranking the engine over, or remove fuel cap. as to removing them don't remove the tank as the manuals state. get to them from underneath. someone told me to remove the back seat and theres access there but underneath seems the way to go. It really could be a number of things. Check the relay, and fuel flow to and from the engine before ripping and tearing at the pumps. One of the pumps is $100 the other is $200.

it only has one internal pump. and there is no way to access the pump from behind the back seat

[Weza]

I actually droped the panhard rod off to allow more room but the diff/axle still get in the way.
I have it up on ramps at the moment - I'll try raising the suspension but i think the brake lines will then get in the way.

Sounds like I'm pretty much rooted - I'll give it one more shot and if I still can't get it out I'll take the tow bar and tank off tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.
I'll let you know how it went.

Cya's,
Wez.

[Jacko84]

hi mate did my fuel pump last friday vs irs, u definately have to take the towbar off well i did on my car, then turn it clockwise when your on back from underneath, there is a hose disconnect let it drop into the tank yes you fish it out easy afterwards, you wont get it out unless you take the hose off. easy as mate just take your time. did you take the hose off in the engine bay to check you have or have no pressure.

[Weza]

Hi Jacko84.

Yeah - gave up it tonight.
Will have to take the towbar and tank out tomorrow.

The pump was slowly dying, symptoms were hard to start, idle surging, no power under load,
Error codes were 44 (Oxygen Sensor Lean (O2)) and 56 (Running Lean Under Load).

I tested by taking the fuel hose off before the reg (straight from the pump), it flowed but not very well - I've been told to should shoot out, but it was not much more than a dribble.

I took the filter out and ran fuel backwards through it to see how much crap was in it - it was full of crap, flowed much better after cleaning it but didn't seem to help.

I"m guessing that the pump may well be fine - but I'm almost curtain that the screen filter is completely blocked and full of crap - thus the low pressure - at least thats my theory.
I'll find out tomorrow when I take tank out and inspect it.

Thanks again to everyone for all your help and advice.
Cya's,
Wez.

[Weza]

Ok - this turned out to be a real bastard of a job.

There are 3 tubes on the top of the tank not including the filler hose.
These 3 tubes are a complete prick to get off. I ended up just cutting them off to get the tank out. The thicker middle tube on the tank is a hard plastic and is almost impossible to get off - what the hell are all the tubes for???
Surely only 1 breather is required and even that could come from the filler tube.

Anyway, now with the tank out I replaced the pump - even with the tank removed from the car its still not easy to get it out and put back the new one in. There is no way I could see of getting this whole assembly out of the tank with it still in the car.

Now putting the tank back in - because I had to cut the hoses off the tank I took a trip up to supercheap for some new hose but couldn't find anything that would fit the bigger middle hose on the tank.
With no other alternative I cut a piece of garden hose and with a heat gun stretched it to fit.
Yes - I will replace with the correct hose (someday)...
Now with a longer piece of hose I could install it onto the tank first and thread it through the chassis.

So - all in all - replacing the fuel pump was a real pain in the BUM, and I still have to re-install the tow bar....(someday)...Oh and a new plastic breather hose....

However - the car seems to be running fine now with the new pump.

Strange thing is - while taking it for a drive the engine light came - when I got back home I checked the codes and it came up with - 12 (all ok), 44 (Oxygen Sensor Lean) then 45 (Oxygen Sensor Rich).
Could it have something to with a bit air in the system? - I'll run it again tomorrow to make sure its ok.

Anyone thought of creating a "How To" on tank removal?
Could have came in real handy.

Thanks everyone...

Cya's,
Wez.

[Brett_jjj]

Just clear the codes by disconnecting the negative battery terminal for a minute or two,then recheck the codes after an hour or so of driving.I still reckon its easier to do it with the tank in the car,way less stuffing around etc, as you have found out..

[James39]

Also sounds like you may need to replace or clean your fuel filter and injectors, considering you had crap in the fuel lines.. seems like no one has replaced the filter which prevents problems like you had.

[Weza]

Hi Brett_jjj.

Yeah - I agree it would have been much easier changing out the pump with the tank in the car.
But even with the tank half out and just hanging on the 3 tubes on the top of the tank - I still couldn't maneuver the assembly into a position where I could get it out with out something getting in the way.
I dunno - maybe I just didn't try long enough - also I didn't want to end up either damaging something or bending the float.

Next time I'll know exactly what to expect.

In any case - it all seems to be working.
I'll clear the codes tomorrow and while I'm holidays, if I have enough time throw together a data interface to read live data coming from the ECU.

Thanks again.
Cya,
Wez.

[Brett_jjj]

Yeah,the first time I changed one, I had trouble with it ,but that was on the side of the road too, after a few times it gets easier.

[wortus]

The first time I did one I took the tank out but it's easy to do it with the tank in the car, you just have to jack up the body and support it on stands and let the diff hang down. You also have to rotate the whole thing as you withdraw it and the float has to come out before the pump otherwise it gets a bit stuck and can damage the float. Likewise when refitting it you need to rotate it in the oposite direction, it's to do with the swirl pot that the pump sits in. The only reason I'd take a tank out to do a fuel pump now would be if I could smell fuel when the tank is full which is indicative of perished breather hoses that need to be replaced or if there was some problem with the return hose inside the fuel tank.
The large diameter breather hose was available from Holden last time I did one which was about 2 years ago. The smaller ones were not and I had to use 3mm fuel hose. The garden hose is not a good idea as it may swell up when in contact with fuel/fuel vapour. You should put a piece of the same garden hose into some petrol and see if is swells up and if it does replace it sooner rather than later. when these hoses stiffen up with age they are also harder to slide through the holes in the car as you raise the tank back into place.

[MR.HG]

find out which one is stuffed first. unhook the fuel line between the two pumps and crank over the car. if fuel comes out refit the pipe then disconnect the line after the secondary pump and crank over again. if fuel comes out there too then maybe the return line is blocked.Check this by disconnecting the other line connected to the tank. There is one to the pumps and the other line is the return line. Before removing the pumps (if need be), depressurize the system by removing the pump relay and cranking the engine over, or remove fuel cap. as to removing them don't remove the tank as the manuals state. get to them from underneath. someone told me to remove the back seat and theres access there but underneath seems the way to go. It really could be a number of things. Check the relay, and fuel flow to and from the engine before ripping and tearing at the pumps. One of the pumps is $100 the other is $200.

how does cranking the motor over make the electric fuel pump turn over? 2 pumps?? hrmm....

[ekuls]

i did my pump a while back and found no probs doin it with the car on the ground. just need to jiggle it around as u pull it out to get the right angles...

[Hangman]

^ Yep, just gotta rotate it as you (gently) pull and it'll come out. No need to remove tank etc, that's just making more work.


I've done the fuel pump in every commodore I've owned, my only question is why do they always go when the tank's f@ckin full?

[wortus]

^ Yep, just gotta rotate it as you (gently) pull and it'll come out. No need to remove tank etc, that's just making more work.


I've done the fuel pump in every commodore I've owned, my only question is why do they always go when the tank's f@ckin full?

Or when your the other side of Sydney on a public holiday and it costs $250 for a bloody tow truck!