vs brake upgread to vt brakes

[richie401]

hey all i am looking in to upgreading my vs brakes to the vt brake, just wondering wat parts i need??? thanks all

[justbad4you]

hey all i am looking in to upgreading my vs brakes to the vt brake, just wondering wat parts i need??? thanks all

You will need 2 vt disc/calipers/lines and an adaptor to fit the vt master to the vs booster i beleive, i think race brakes have them racebrakes.com.au, If its a bit dear then you can modify a vn/r bracket and just do the entire vt booster and master, which may be better anywayz as the vs booster is only 3to1 boost and the vt/x is 4.25to1. http://users.bigpond.net.au/jimbo123/VN/
Its not absolutely nessacary to do the master but you will have a low pedal.
ABS will be fine, just be carful not to get to much air in the lines(bend them up a bit when you take them out) and dont let the resovoir run dry when you are bleeding the system. did this to my vr if its any help at all Vt booster m/c in Vr V8 with ABS

[justbad4you]

did you do it>?

hey all i am looking in to upgreading my vs brakes to the vt brake, just wondering wat parts i need??? thanks all

[HamaTime™]

Imperative:

1. VT Twin Piston Calipers
2. VT 296X28mm Rotors
3. Modified Brake lines (VS ones will not work, neither will VT ones) - you will need to get them custom made or get Braided ones from Mr Spares or RaceBrakes
4. VT Brake Pads

Not Necessary but Highly Recommended:

1. VT Master Cylinder
2. VT Brake Booster
3. VT Booster Mounting Bracket (Can be sourced from MarkoVR - fellow JC member)

NOTE:

I highly recommend you do the entire upgrade, and use the VT Master Cylinder along with the VT Booster.

The VS Booster & VT Master Cylinder combo is absolutely disgusting. Very long, spongy loose pedal with barely any feel. The twin diaphragm Steel VT booster is far better suited to the bigger calipers (also being twin piston rather than the VS single piston) than the single diaphragm Plastic VS booster.

If you want to read about the problems I had with VS Booster - VT Master combo, read here: VT Brake upgrade - Long and Spongy Pedal

Cost:

I did the whole upgrade for $500 worth of parts. Very very worthwhile....if I bought another VS, I would do this one or the VE 328mm Brake upgrade in a heartbeat.

Pushrod Modification for VT Booster:

If you decide to run with the VT booster you will need to modify the pushrod so that it will appropriately line up with the pedal.

- See picture

I. This hole needs to be welded up, a new hole 3/8 (9mm) wide needs to be drilled (see next step)
II. The new hole needs to be drilled 113mm from the base of the booster, which should be a tiny bit down from the previous hole.

[IBLOWN]

Got to watch not using the VT master cylinder. Because the brake pedal is lower the rear brakes work harder. Gets a bit skatie when trying to stop in a hurry at higher speeds.

[HamaTime™]

Got to watch not using the VT master cylinder. Because the brake pedal is lower the rear brakes work harder. Gets a bit skatie when trying to stop in a hurry at higher speeds.

Yep, Personally I wouldn't even consider doing the upgrade without the VT Master Cylinder and the Booster.

VT Master is definitely definitely needed though.

[VN_Luke]

Shameless plug: I got some slotted rotors and vt calipers for sale if you need - all maybe 2 years old and still reasonably shiny. - llocated in SE melb - make an offer if interested.

[justbad4you]

whats a ve upgrade worth ???/ if you know that is? cheeers

Imperative:

1. VT Twin Piston Calipers
2. VT 296X28mm Rotors
3. Modified Brake lines (VS ones will not work, neither will VT ones) - you will need to get them custom made or get Braided ones from Mr Spares or RaceBrakes
4. VT Brake Pads

Not Necessary but Highly Recommended:

1. VT Master Cylinder
2. VT Brake Booster
3. VT Booster Mounting Bracket (Can be sourced from MarkoVR - fellow JC member)

NOTE:

I highly recommend you do the entire upgrade, and use the VT Master Cylinder along with the VT Booster.

The VS Booster & VT Master Cylinder combo is absolutely disgusting. Very long, spongy loose pedal with barely any feel. The twin diaphragm Steel VT booster is far better suited to the bigger calipers (also being twin piston rather than the VS single piston) than the single diaphragm Plastic VS booster.

If you want to read about the problems I had with VS Booster - VT Master combo, read here: VT Brake upgrade - Long and Spongy Pedal

Cost:

I did the whole upgrade for $500 worth of parts. Very very worthwhile....if I bought another VS, I would do this one or the VE 328mm Brake upgrade in a heartbeat.

Pushrod Modification for VT Booster:

If you decide to run with the VT booster you will need to modify the pushrod so that it will appropriately line up with the pedal.

- See picture

I. This hole needs to be welded up, a new hole 3/8 (9mm) wide needs to be drilled (see next step)
II. The new hole needs to be drilled 113mm from the base of the booster, which should be a tiny bit down from the previous hole.

[HamaTime™]

Bout $750 - $1000 depending on your preferences/needs.

Contact Greg at GSL Rallysport - he's a site sponsor. He'll look after you.

[justbad4you]

IS THAT FITTED? and thanks for the info on rally sport,,,, 1 last thing>would it be a much better brake upgrade over the stock vt>? thanks again

Bout $750 - $1000 depending on your preferences/needs.

Contact Greg at GSL Rallysport - he's a site sponsor. He'll look after you.

[RX25SE]

Im running the VS booster with a VT master.

The pedal is not long and spongy.

The VT master has a shallower hole in the primary piston and must be spaced away from the VS booster to retain normal pedal height/feel. As the VT master has a larger bore, the pedal will feel firmer than the stock VS system. (I fitted the VT master first to see how it would feel with VS calipers/discs and almost left it at that. Good pedal feel)
If you retain the smaller VS master the pedal will be low and spongy due to the larger amount of fluid required by the twin piston calipers.

Fitting a VT master to a VS booster without a spacer between will prevent the compensating port in the master from opening and the master can't work correctly.

[HamaTime™]

Im running the VS booster with a VT master.

The pedal is not long and spongy.

The VT master has a shallower hole in the primary piston and must be spaced away from the VS booster to retain normal pedal height/feel. As the VT master has a larger bore, the pedal will feel firmer than the stock VS system. (I fitted the VT master first to see how it would feel with VS calipers/discs and almost left it at that. Good pedal feel)
If you retain the smaller VS master the pedal will be low and spongy due to the larger amount of fluid required by the twin piston calipers.

Fitting a VT master to a VS booster without a spacer between will prevent the compensating port in the master from opening and the master can't work correctly.

There's always one to post conflicting opinions.

Did you try it yourself, did you do the brake upgrade??

I did, and I used the VT Master Cylinder/VS Booster combo along with the RaceBrakes spacer that goes between the two. Read my thread to which I posted the link above with the problems I had with it. The whole system was Taken off, inspected, re-fitted, bled about 4 times and it still had the worst pedal feel, long and spongy.

VS brakes with the VT master??? What's the point? Retaining the ineffecient and small single piston calipers? Bad idea.

In short, I tried and tested the VS Booster with the VT Master Cylinder combo for over one and a half months and it was the worst.

Spend the extra cash and get the larger, steel, twin diaphragm VT Booster which was designed to run with the rest of the equipment. Best choice I ever made going to the VT Booster.

[RX25SE]

There's always one to post conflicting opinions.

Did you try it yourself, did you do the brake upgrade??

I did, and I used the VT Master Cylinder/VS Booster combo along with the RaceBrakes spacer that goes between the two. Read my thread to which I posted the link above with the problems I had with it. The whole system was Taken off, inspected, re-fitted, bled about 4 times and it still had the worst pedal feel, long and spongy.

VS brakes with the VT master??? What's the point? Retaining the ineffecient and small single piston calipers? Bad idea.

In short, I tried and tested the VS Booster with the VT Master Cylinder combo for over one and a half months and it was the worst.

Spend the extra cash and get the larger, steel, twin diaphragm VT Booster which was designed to run with the rest of the equipment. Best choice I ever made going to the VT Booster.

Yes there are always conflicting opinions. Especially when the information posted is incorrect.

I have been running the VT brakes for over 3 years and have converted other cars as well, so yes, I have done it.

I machined my own spacer for the master and have never had an issue with pedal feel.

When we did a mates car (before mine) we thought we'd try it with the VS 7/8" bore master and booster (knowing full well that the pedal would be lower and softer) seeing we had both driven a VS with a 15/16" master and the pedal was acceptable. Not so with the VS master so we fitted a VT master.

When I did mine I knew what to expect so I'd thought I'd try fitting the VT 1" master before the calipers to see how the pedal would feel. Much faster reaction and a firmer pedal as you would expect. (remember that Police spec VK used to fit 1' master instead of 15/16" and retained the single piston calipers.)
I was tempted to leave it at that, so no, not a bad idea.
Have you driven a VS with this setup??

I'm not disputing that a VT booster will be a further improvement, but using a correctly fitted VT master to the VS booster will not cause a low spongy pedal.

[HamaTime™]

Yes there are always conflicting opinions. Especially when the information posted is incorrect.

I have been running the VT brakes for over 3 years and have converted other cars as well, so yes, I have done it.

I machined my own spacer for the master and have never had an issue with pedal feel.

When we did a mates car (before mine) we thought we'd try it with the VS 7/8" bore master and booster (knowing full well that the pedal would be lower and softer) seeing we had both driven a VS with a 15/16" master and the pedal was acceptable. Not so with the VS master so we fitted a VT master.

When I did mine I knew what to expect so I'd thought I'd try fitting the VT 1" master before the calipers to see how the pedal would feel. Much faster reaction and a firmer pedal as you would expect. (remember that Police spec VK used to fit 1' master instead of 15/16" and retained the single piston calipers.)
I was tempted to leave it at that, so no, not a bad idea.
Have you driven a VS with this setup??

I'm not disputing that a VT booster will be a further improvement, but using a correctly fitted VT master to the VS booster will not cause a low spongy pedal.

I hope your not referring to my information posted as being incorrect, since my information is based on real life experience and fitting it myself...therefore not incorrect.

Well I'm glad you have first hand experience with the upgrade. Makes our conversation a bit more credible since we both know what we are talking about now.

What diameter did you machine the spacer? The one from Racebrakes if I remember correctly was 25mm Performance Brake Packages (bottom right of the screen)

I don't doubt that the VT master running with the VS calipers would provide a faster reaction and less spongy pedal, due to the larger bore and being able to push a greater volume of fluid faster, but still that is improving pedal feel and reaction, it will not really improve the efficiency of the brakes. Due to the fact that you are still only getting 1 54mm Piston down onto a 288X23mm Disc....whereas with the twin 42mm Pistons on a 296X28mm disc running with a 1" Master and a twin diaphragm steel booster. Even the theory makes it sound so good, doing the whole upgrade to me is the best decision.

I have driven a VS with stock calipers running a VT master, I have driven a VS with VS booster/VT master (all correctly fitted, fiddled with and trialed to try and get it to work....nothing)

I have had a bad experience with the VT master/VS booster, and I won't recommend it to anyone.

I will also dispute your last statement, as a correctly fitted/spaced VT master/VS Booster combo caused a spongy free play pedal which had no effect on the top 40% of the pedal (aka the free play threshold) and then kicked in.

[RX25SE]

Here's a pic of the spacer.



From memory it was about 6mm thick (I also made a spacer to fit inside the booster at the rear of the primary piston) and I also refitted the VS reservoir.
I calculated the distance from the end of the booster pushrod to the bottom of the bore in the piston and used that distance for the spacer. My mates has no spacer as he just removed the adjusting nut from the pushrod, but I don't recommend this as it will not have a rounded end and will, over time, butcher the bore in the piston.

This setup allows the master cylinder to instantly build pressure the moment the pushrod is moved. No low or spongy pedal.

Perhaps the spacer supplied (in the pic from your link) was too thick? This would cause a very low pedal.

[ephect]

noones mentioned the shims needed for the VT rotor hubs. These are not needed if you purchase the modified vt rotor with vs hub.

there is a how to also on here

[justbad4you]

I hope your not referring to my information posted as being incorrect, since my information is based on real life experience and fitting it myself...therefore not incorrect.

Well I'm glad you have first hand experience with the upgrade. Makes our conversation a bit more credible since we both know what we are talking about now.

What diameter did you machine the spacer? The one from Racebrakes if I remember correctly was 25mm Performance Brake Packages (bottom right of the screen)

I don't doubt that the VT master running with the VS calipers would provide a faster reaction and less spongy pedal, due to the larger bore and being able to push a greater volume of fluid faster, but still that is improving pedal feel and reaction, it will not really improve the efficiency of the brakes. Due to the fact that you are still only getting 1 54mm Piston down onto a 288X23mm Disc....whereas with the twin 42mm Pistons on a 296X28mm disc running with a 1" Master and a twin diaphragm steel booster. Even the theory makes it sound so good, doing the whole upgrade to me is the best decision.

I have driven a VS with stock calipers running a VT master, I have driven a VS with VS booster/VT master (all correctly fitted, fiddled with and trialed to try and get it to work....nothing)

I have had a bad experience with the VT master/VS booster, and I won't recommend it to anyone.

I will also dispute your last statement, as a correctly fitted/spaced VT master/VS Booster combo caused a spongy free play pedal which had no effect on the top 40% of the pedal (aka the free play threshold) and then kicked in.

ok im a tiny bit confused? so vt master? vt calipers? but no need for a booster? (and if 1 is iftted is it a straight bolt on? for the booster.) im sourcing all my parts on monday for the job on the maloo on wend? booster or not? i didnt have a vt booster on my old vs(the pedal on that upgrade was 75%good....not like the stopping power of mt vt berlina but not bad)

[HamaTime™]

From memory it was about 6mm thick (I also made a spacer to fit inside the booster at the rear of the primary piston) and I also refitted the VS reservoir.
I calculated the distance from the end of the booster pushrod to the bottom of the bore in the piston and used that distance for the spacer. My mates has no spacer as he just removed the adjusting nut from the pushrod, but I don't recommend this as it will not have a rounded end and will, over time, butcher the bore in the piston.

This setup allows the master cylinder to instantly build pressure the moment the pushrod is moved. No low or spongy pedal.

Perhaps the spacer supplied (in the pic from your link) was too thick? This would cause a very low pedal.

I'll go measure it later today and edit this post. The pedal feel may be improved, but compared to the VT booster which obviously allows a bigger pressure output than the smaller VS one, pedal feel will be better than with the VS Booster/VT master combo.

noones mentioned the shims needed for the VT rotor hubs. These are not needed if you purchase the modified vt rotor with vs hub.

there is a how to also on here

Yeah your right mate, forgot about them. I'd stick with the standard VT rotors with the hubs, allows more flexibility down the track.

ok im a tiny bit confused? so vt master? vt calipers? but no need for a booster? (and if 1 is iftted is it a straight bolt on? for the booster.) im sourcing all my parts on monday for the job on the maloo on wend? booster or not? i didnt have a vt booster on my old vs(the pedal on that upgrade was 75%good....not like the stopping power of mt vt berlina but not bad)

No you need the VT master, and you will need the VT Booster, yes it's a straight bolt on, however, contact MarkoVR (fellow JC member) for his custom VT Booster Mounting bracket. You will need the bracket to bolt the VT booster onto your VS firewall since the mounting studs/platform is different.

Definately go with the VT Booster, 100% pedal feel.

[justbad4you]

ok thanks for the info that clears it all up forme...thanks again....havea good1,

I'll go measure it later today and edit this post. The pedal feel may be improved, but compared to the VT booster which obviously allows a bigger pressure output than the smaller VS one, pedal feel will be better than with the VS Booster/VT master combo.



Yeah your right mate, forgot about them. I'd stick with the standard VT rotors with the hubs, allows more flexibility down the track.



No you need the VT master, and you will need the VT Booster, yes it's a straight bolt on, however, contact MarkoVR (fellow JC member) for his custom VT Booster Mounting bracket. You will need the bracket to bolt the VT booster onto your VS firewall since the mounting studs/platform is different.

Definately go with the VT Booster, 100% pedal feel.

[RX25SE]

I'll go measure it later today and edit this post. The pedal feel may be improved, but compared to the VT booster which obviously allows a bigger pressure output than the smaller VS one, pedal feel will be better than with the VS Booster/VT master combo.

Agreed. The VT booster will provide higher line pressure for the same amount of pedal effort.

[nathanVY]

I've got the VT setup ready to go on just need to get the booster rod modified. I'm going with shims atm but if I ever have to replace rotors i'd definitely be getting a VT-sized rotor that's made to fit the VS hub, I'd recommend that over the shims any day. I think PBR make them.

[GTP 85]

Ive have the VT setup on for several years now, fantastic on the VS chassis!

VT Calipers
Longer brake lines to suit
VT booster with modded pushrod
VT Master cyl

AND quality brake pads. Excellent budget brake upgrade, and i would never do it differently again.

Did twin piston calipers, with the existing VS master/ booster setup on a mates car... Was full of fail. brake feel was terrible. never again

[nathanVY]

RUF231 - what pads did you use?

[RX25SE]

i'd definitely be getting a VT-sized rotor that's made to fit the VS hub, I'd recommend that over the shims any day. I think PBR make them.

Im running the 401B rotors so no shims. The way to go IMO.

Are they still available?
Last time I checked my brake supplier could no longer get them.

[ephect]

dba, mr spares (ebay) and another mob, cant recall their name still sell em.

just as a thought.. has anyone tried a VT hub? then you could get away with standard vt rotors and no need for shims. this would be route i'd be taking, if i didnt upgrade to the VS GTS big brakes already.