VS Calais Series 2 probs

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Hi there, Just purchased a vs calais series 2 5.0ltr, when I test drove it everything seemed fine.
Out of respect for owner and not yet paying for the car I didn't get a chance to open it right up.
Now that I have had a good drive of it, I have realised that its not shifting gears properly, holding gears to long and not kicking down a gear when accelerator is applied.
The other thing I have noticed is that it is not revving cleanly all the way through at 3/4 to full throttle.
Seems to die at around 3500rpm.
Things i can tell you about the car, Its a vt motor as the original motor snapped the nose off the crank with harmonic balancer. It hasn't been driven for quite some time. Everything else on the car is immaculate.
Where should I start, No engine light is comming on at all?

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Gunna try the fault codes see if anything comes back, Still any help appriciated

[jesse_lankey]

it could be your throttle position sensor, my mates vt had similar symptoms and it turned out it was the TPS, also I'm not sure if a VT TPS will work correctly with the VS ecu, but dont quote me on that.

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thats what i was thinking. if its a vt tps with a vs computer, it may not be getting the right signal.
I'm goin to replace the tps, Is there a guide on how to set up the tps on a vs?
Or is it just strait bolt on and away you go?

[FstStig]

The ECU has nothing to do with the model of car, more the motor, so if its a 5.0L V8 Which would be the 304 then the 304 ECU would be in the car not a 3.8L Ecotec ECU. I would probably be giving the throttle body a clean first, as well as checking for any faults that may of been lodged.

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Ok I ran the paper clip diagnostic tool today, Here are the fault codes I got.
12: System Pass
19: Throttle Position sensor (stuck open)
31: Theft Deterent Signal Missing
56: Running Lean Under Load
I removed the throttle position sensor to see if it was jammed but it was springing back fine.
I ordered a new TPS, be here in the morning.
Is this likely to be related to the 56 Fault code? If not What is likely to be the coarse of fault code 56?

[VrWagz1]

Possibly. Dont forget to clear the codes after you put the sensor in, go for a run then check them again to see if its fixed and codes are still clear.

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Ok I replaced the tps this morning. took it for a drive and is changing alot better, was even dropping back gears. I then cleared the codes and ran it again and got no codes registered.
Since driving it home it it still not dropping back from Overdrive to 3rd or second when I accelerate. I checked codes again and it has registered Code 19 again.
Where else can I look?

[Brett_jjj]

Its gotta be either that the new TPS is faulty,or maybe the TPS wiring that runs back to the ECU has a bad or corroded connection.Id check the wiring from the TPS all the way back to the ECU connectors.Check it all with a multimeter.The TPS has a Black/yellow wire,a Blue wire,and a Grey wire running from the TPS back to the ECU.The same Black/yellow wire also connects to the ECT(Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor.
The ECU connector pins these wires connect to are ECU conenctor pin numbers-
A7 =Grey wire,
B11 = Blue wire,
E16 = Black/yellow wire.
The ECU connector pin numbers are stamped into the connectors on the ECU.
Pin number A7=Middle pink ECU connector.
Pin number B11=Middle pink ECU connector.
Pin number E16=Blue ECU connector.
Id check all these connector contacts for corrosion or looseness,if you find theres no problem with the TPS,its wiring etc,then Id try another ECU as they can be faulty,but its very rare.

[VrWagz1]

(Im gonna make this up out of my head but it should work) The TPS im sure is just a potentiometer. you should have 5v on the Black/Yellow because it sounds like a Vcc feed cause it hs a common supply from the ECT. This means between the grey and blue wire you should have a 0v and the other an analouge variable voltage 0-5v as the tps is turned. Try stabbing these 2 wires and seeing if it varies as you turn the TPS. Depending on the setup it will either be 0 and rise to 5v as turned, OR 5v and lower to 0v. It also may never hit 0v as the ecu might see the 1 v as a sig health voltage aslo. Give it a try and see what sort of results you get. It will be an interesting exercise so you can see it working, should be fun.

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Thanks for the help guys, I'll try this tommorow. First i'll check all the connectors and for obvious wiring issues and then If I get no where I will try testing like suggested.
One thing to add, after doing a little more driving I'm noticing that it tends to change better when cold and once warm it holds gears longer, I havn't yet properely checked if it will kick down gears when cold.
The only other thing that I have noticed that may be related (but probably not), is that the temperature guage does not seem to get anywhere near high enough. From memory my last vs 5.0ltr ran at around just under quarter normally and got up as high as over half when really getting into it. This temp guage only seems to run at just above cold and max at just under quarter.
Just after reading that a wire from the tps is also related with temp sender, Is it posible that it could be related?

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One more problem i have noticed which I havn't yet confirmed when it is happening, but i think when you go around a right hand bend, and accelerate, it seems to have an intermitten fault where it is almost like you turn the key off for a second and then keeps going.
Has anyone ever herd of anything like this?

[VrWagz1]

The dash sender is a different sensor altogether to the ECT sensor(though they are right next to each other on the manifold), The dash is only a single wire sensor.

The only way i can see a relation is if you have the loom moving and shorting somwhere or motor moving a hitting the loom when you go round a corner causing the TPS fault, but thats a long bow. The tps wont cause the car to die totally, that would have to be somthing else shorting which i would think would log a code. Best guess is you have another issue with fuel, possibly with the swirl pot in the fuel tank, or the return line in the tank has become disconnected(you know that real short one on the inside of the round access hole plate for the fuel pump). Theres 2 lines going through it, the fuel line and the return line. Most people who hve this issue usually complain about it when they have less then half a tank, above that its usually ok.

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Is it possible for a tps to be wired in reverse? I'm finding when u ease the throttle on it holds gears like it would at full throttle. And when you floor it, it changes gears early. Like it's reverse

[VrWagz1]

I would say no, cause its all factory plugged etc... You have also swapped it over, which would be twice you got a backward one. By the way did you try the old one aswell as the new one to see if there was any notable differences.

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yes I tried the old one and it is doing the same thing with the new one.
after a closer look, I'm realising that I have no idea what is in the engine bay of my car. I msg'd the previous owner to find out if it has a vt or vs computer and loom.
All he wrote back was, vs vt don't work. So I'm guessing he means it has a vs computer and loom in it.
Now I havn't yet looked at the plug on a vr vs air con compressor but my loom seems to have the same plug as the vt compressor. Do they have the same plug between models or has my wiring loom been modified?
I know alot of this seems un related but I'm guessing it is all goin to lead back to the same problem.

[baza]

has the car still got the vs transmission ? the transmissions have different codes for each model series , vr is not the same as vs for example. on the trans bellhousing at the top there is usually a sticker with the code on it. you may have to do a search on the forum to find the codes for each model, just to make sure that it is not a vt trans. also the vt 5 ltr engine has a higher compression ratio than the vs and the vt 5 ltr also has sequential fuel injection , instead of group injection on the vs series 1 and 2 . you may have to know what injectors is on your motor , vt or vs . you could need to reprogram your memcal [ tune ]. and has the auto transmission been serviced , is the fluid clean and red color ?

[BlackVXGTS]

The only other thing that I have noticed that may be related (but probably not), is that the temperature guage does not seem to get anywhere near high enough. From memory my last vs 5.0ltr ran at around just under quarter normally and got up as high as over half when really getting into it. This temp guage only seems to run at just above cold and max at just under quarter.
Just after reading that a wire from the tps is also related with temp sender, Is it posible that it could be related?

If the temperature is showing low it's possible that your thermostat or the temperature gauge sensor might be faulty. I'd be replacing the thermostat, particularly if there is any doubt that the correct coolant has been used.

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Ok I have some more info, I didn't get time to spend fault finding today, had to finish off the last of the road worthy stuff.
After speaking to the previous owner he has told me (in a round about sorta way) that it has a vt motor, the original auto, vs computer and vs wiring loom.
From what I can put together, I'm guessing it has vt inlet manifold and throttle body (as it does not have provisions for charcoal canister connection).
I spoke to another mechanic who mainly works on holdens, He suggested I try a vt tps because they have a different auto, after checking with repco they are listed as having the same tps as a vs. Repco have ordered me another tps to assure the one I got wasn't faulty.
The mechanic I spoke to also said that its strange because if it wasn't picking up the tps then it wouldn't idle properely and its idleing fine

[VrWagz1]

Kewl, so you got a VS ecu.

See if you can findout if the VS S3 utes had climate control as an option. My guess is they didnt. If thats the case you may have to swap to a manual heater box setup and A/C button uptop to get the VT A/C to go. Thats a massive pain in the arse, let alone the backward step from climate control! Unless one of the tuners here knows another way to do it or set the ecu up for it.

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Ok heres what I have in mind as far as Air con goes.
Seeing as it has a vs computer and loom a vs compressor will work fine.
Now i am able to get a vs compressor, belts and hoses. I'm thinking I will bolt compressor up and see how it lines up with vt pulleys.
I understand its not going to be close but I need to find out if pulleys can be re arranged to keep the vt serpintine belt as well as run a pulley for the compressor.
if not I will consider changing all belts, pulleys, alternator and water pump back to vs set-up

[VrWagz1]

Ok heres what I have in mind as far as Air con goes.
Seeing as it has a vs computer and loom a vs compressor will work fine.
Now i am able to get a vs compressor, belts and hoses. I'm thinking I will bolt compressor up and see how it lines up with vt pulleys.
I understand its not going to be close but I need to find out if pulleys can be re arranged to keep the vt serpintine belt as well as run a pulley for the compressor.
if not I will consider changing all belts, pulleys, alternator and water pump back to vs set-up

If you have the VT 5.0ltr, it is the same everything almost as the old 5ltr. So the Vn/p/r/s compressor will definatly bolt up fine. My concern is that the ecu is setup for a variable speed compressor which will not work with the vs ON/OFF duty cylce compressor.

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ok now I have no idea what is goin on, just changed tps again to check it wasnt a faulty tps.
put it back together and when it started it ran like a bucket. engine light came on and then started idle'n better.
bridged the diagnostic plug and it give me codes 19, 23 and 33
Everything is hooked up and I can't see anything out of place.
Is it possible that being a vt alternator that it could be producing to much power and frying my sensors.
when I looked it up this is what I got
Code 19 - Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) - Stuck Open
Code 23 - IAT - Voltage Too High
Code 33 - MAP Sensor Signal - Voltage Too High
Urgent help needed

[nathanVY]

I thought VS's didn't have MAP sensors lol. Did you use a 2nd hand tps or a new one? My advice would be not to bother with 2nd hand parts most of the time. Just buy new ones. A TPS is about $50 from repco.

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Ok I got the latest prob sorted. I removed the left hand engine cover while replacing tps and when I had put it back on it kinked the vacum line to the map sensor.
With that sorted I'm still back to my original problem. I havn't put any second hand parts in, they have all been new.
I guess I'll just have to start a process of elimination.