Please HELP :(

[304runner]

Hi everyone, Just wondering if i could get some advice as to why my car wont start. I have been reading through the forums and have tried just about everything I can see that may be related to the issue but to no avail.

Its an injected 304 out of a VR and im getting fuel and spark clean air and I have checked my timing 3 times. Replaced the dizzy and leads, plugs, computer, the ignition module, checked fuel pressure and just spent the last 3 hours swearing while I pulled out and replaced the dizzy in case the Hall Effect Sensor was rooted but still not starting.

Everyone I have spoken to keep saying that my timing must be out? But I have check it 3 times now and the last time was with the rocker cover off so I could see if I was on the correct stroke.


I have sprayed "start ya bastard" into the intake to see if its a fuel issue but it didnt respond. I bench tested the injectors and they all seem to be working fine also.

I was mucking about with the dizzy when cranking it over (advancing/retarding) and the only thing I got was a "pop pop" sound when going to far one way?

Is it at all possible for the coil pack to be throwing a spark but not enought to make it fire up?

Please help if you have any more ideas.

Oh, and one last thing I have just remembered... I use to be able to hear a electronic buzzing sound coming from somewhere under the hood but I can only faintly hear it when I start to undo my earthing bolt?

Cheers

[BlackVXGTS]

Did you check the timing in diagnostic mode? Have you checked whether you have any DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) set?

[hako]

I guess you mean you have the 308 V8 in your VR - a 304 is an AMC engine fitted to jeeps etc.......however, what I would do is first make sure the spark is fat and healthy - if weak then it's probably the coil or the ignition module....probably the latter.
Thinking about it, if no go with "start ya bastard", then it must be spark related....and even if the timing was way out you would still get some reaction...either a misfire/backfire/something.
You say: "Oh, and one last thing I have just remembered... I use to be able to hear a electronic buzzing sound coming from somewhere under the hood but I can only faintly hear it when I start to undo my earthing bolt?...
"
That may be the best clue to what is wrong.

[304runner]

Thanks for the swift reply boys. "BlackVXGTS" im getting a a scan tool in the morning from a mates workshop so i'll keep you posted.

"Hacko" Im heading into Bursons first thing to grab a new coil but it might just be the timing. I had two Mechanic mates over this arvo one who works for BMW and another Energy Australia (diesel) so otherwise useless to me and they seem to think its the timing as its back firing?

I will be also getting my hands on a timing light so things should be more clearer by the afternoon...

ps, the engine in a holden vn to vt* is and injected 304...Not a 308

Cheers

[delcowizzid]

remove number 1 plug put finger in hole turn engine by hand untill finger gets pushed out the hole continue turning crank clockwise untill timing mark arrives at TDC mark. turn dizzy untill rotor points at lead going to number 1 cylinder refit plug and start car

[hako]

n...

ps, the engine in a holden vn to vt* is and injected 304...Not a 308

Cheers

Just shows how much I know

[VrWagz1]

I would say you have a issue with the imobilliser isolating the injectors, but you say it fired up when you twisted the dizzy. Your not 180 degrees out r u??

[Like a Boss]

maybe you don't have a battery =\

[vscaprice98]

when u pulled the rocker cover off did u pull right or left one off put motor on tdc with no one piston up best way to check if u on ur no 1 firing stroke is left rocker cover off and see that no 4 is on the rock ie move pulley one way intake starts to go down move other way exhaust starts to go down then u no that right hall efect sensor not the eaisest thing to replace can be not quite right as well if ur getting spark i would say ur igntion module is right could maybe a stretched timing chain which has thrown it out of wake with ur cam timing if all sensors and fuel is being distrubted to the motor

[304runner]

Cheers "vscaprice98" Yeah I unbolted the left hand side rocker cover (looking from an open bonnet) and once I noticed the exaust and intake were motionless when turning the engine by hand on and off TDC and seeing piston 7 (I think) move I assumed I was spot on.. But now Im starting to think I may be 1 tooth out on my dizzy.. Grrrrr! But either way I'll keep everyone posted on my result when and if I get her going again...

Thank you to everone who has taken the time to reply, I honestly thought it was going to be put in everyones "too hard basket"


Ben

[vscaprice98]

should be no 4 on the rock mate 2nd one in from the front on left hand side as ur firing order is 1278 then 4563 on ur next cycle
if u say no 7 is on the rock with no 1 piston being up some thing up there cause as the holden v8 works when no 1 on fire no 4 on rock when 2 up no 5 is on the rock so on so on

[Reaper]

If you have fuel and spark then it sounds like everything is doing what it should. Are you sure you don't have the leads on 180 deg out??? Easy done and can be very frustrating.

Reaper

[vscaprice98]

yea if not sure on ur leads no 1 at back at mark location norm from back of distributor going in a clock wise direction around to the left to ariel to left headlight etc back to the back of the car lol
going no one front right 2, 7,8,4,5,6,3

[vscaprice98]

have u had any luck with it mate

[304runner]

[UPDATE]

Hi guys, Just thought id fill you all in with the progress...

We had a mates mechanic pop over who did his trade with Holden and also has a 304 to have a look and he brought a timing light, pulse thingy and a node tester kit.
He started from the begining and replaced all the leads before removing and replacing the dizzy as it was a tooth out? And we still got no result... He had it within 2 degrees on the harmonic balancer and she still didnt fire up...

The weird thing was that it sounded like it was so bloody close to firing up, closer than ever.. He was as confused as anything! After about 2 hours mucking about with it we decided to get it towed to his workshop (right next door to my mechanic *awkward*) and I popped in there today to see how things were only to have him tell me he is losing his mind trying to figure out the issue...

He said its somehow still back firing but is 100% its not 180 out.. He mentioned something about bridging something to reset the "base timing", whatever that is but he said it should still go...

If you thought I was frustrated then you can only imagine how pissed off a qualifed mechanic is when he is replacing all the vital parts need from his own car to try and sort out the issue and still end up with no result....

So my next question is (I was to affraid to ask the mechanic) how can you still get a little bit of back firing if your not 180 Degrees out?

[FstStig]

Not your MAF sensor is it? Your MAF sensor is your Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. If this fails it can cause all kind of head aches.

[304runner]

Ok, so I just got a call from him and he got it running..... And Pretty much all of you were right! It was somehow still 180 out! WTF?

TDC was checked by 3 differend mechanics and all were happy with it being spot on but as it turns out it wasnt...

A special thanks to vscaprice98 and Haco for taking the time to post a number of times. I feel embarresed to read back on the posts and see the problem mentioned right off the bat.

Kind Regards

Ben

[vscaprice98]

its ok mate we all here to help it sounded to me it was out thats why was getting u to check no 4 to make sure it on the rock when i built my motor i went off what i new then read me rollmaster timing set that i had and it told me how to set the timing set which through it out 180 from what i new on how it was all situated so i went into me knowledge and discoverd me self it wasnt right and set it to what me knowledge was which i thought but saw the rollmaster set with its writing and went by that showed it to some performance engine builders as well and they were thinking what the #### on the packet that not right lol

[304runner]

I hope this thread can help someone else out... A lesson learnt* thats for sure.... Never be to sure you have all basses covered even if you have checked them more than once...

Cheers Forum.....

[JAAV]

He He, The amount of times Ive had to remove the dizzy in my ski boat for maintance. Then get caught on having it out by 180...With the AV gas and a real fat MSD spark she will allways try and start.....Throwing me off thinking it is somthing else.......
Then kick your head in for not doing the basic check...
Still do it...