LS1 or Worked 304

[304runner]

Hi all, I have been toying with the idea of woking my Utes 304 for a while and now im

stuck between a rock and a hard place. You see I just went for a drive in my mates ute

(not sure what model) but its got the ls1 in it and bloody hell it moves. Granted its got a

turbo killer cam installed in it but now im wondering if I should look at doing a conversion.

So my question to you all is what would you do?

Throw an LS1 in the VR ute or spend the same amount the LS1 would cost me, on some serious engine work on the old 304?

Cheers

[Rusty]

How many km on the 304?

[Vee-ard]

If you really love the 304 and have an attachment to it, then do it up, but if you're just after speed then buy a new car, an LS1 conversion is kinda pointless, hard and expensive. An LS1 conversion will set you back more than 10 grand, and then you're gonna want to modify it after that. you can get a VT with an LS1 for less than 10 grand now, and a VY SS for less than 18000.

If that's your car in your avatar, then I'm not having a go at you, but this is why i wouldn't ever spend so much on body work unless it was a classic, its all cash down the drain when you need to upgrade to go faster.

[304runner]

Yeah plenty of K's on it. About 240+....

The work would be carried out by myself as im qute nifty with this kind of thing so id be saving on a shit load of labour. Im pretty sure id be able to get an Ls1 in and running for under 6k...

I have done a bit of research and there doesnt seem to be much involved that I cant handle and if I get stuck on something I have mates who are pro's in the industry that can lend a hand if need be. But like i said im confident I can do most of it. I like the sence of achievement received after finishing something like this...

Nonetheless i'll be making a thread of the conversion or build.. Now I just need some encouragement on which way to go

[Vee-ard]

Yeah plenty of K's on it. About 240+....

The work would be carried out by myself as im qute nifty with this kind of thing so id be saving on a shit load of labour. Im pretty sure id be able to get an Ls1 in and running for under 6k...

I have done a bit of research and there doesnt seem to be much involved that I cant handle and if I get stuck on something I have mates who are pro's in the industry that can lend a hand if need be. But like i said im confident I can do most of it. I like the sence of achievement received after finishing something like this...

Nonetheless i'll be making a thread of the conversion or build.. Now I just need some encouragement on which way to go

Fair enough mate, normally people with no clue come on here asking the same. If you can get it in for under 6K, go for it. Its just a better base motor to start working on and doing it up wont even cost you half what it would cost to get the same out of a 304.

[sporty custom]

not saying no either way but gotta love a 304 they r a tuff little motor got gr8 heads and bottom end as good as any.perfect for boost i think they will impress you with simalar mods as ya mates ls1. the old saying use to be no replacement for cubes well the vlts have well and trully put that one to rest.

[sporty custom]

vee ard wot a load of shit $6000 in the right hands on a 304 on a drag strip you got a quick car compared to a stock ls1 in same car yaeh good luck with that

[dirt drifter]

it starts to add up quick! even if u buy the conversion bits and do the labour yourself (mounts, starter relocation, pipes, fuel system, harness, unlocked ecu, hydrualic clutch pedal box, speedo sender that talks to your speedo properly etc)

there is a few good threads on other forums, i shouldnt get into trouble if i dont link them. a guy called road_warrior on the commodore street forum and a few on the turbo calais one (read between the lines here)

i looked into it and decided it was too much money and effort, then as luck would have it i stumbled across a mad vs ss with the conversion already done cranking out 400+ rwhp in the same town as me selling for a fraction of the build cost! maybe u could hunt for something already with the conversion too, never know what u might find, swap running gear over and sell the donor car with your 304 and box installed to recoup some coin?

also, i think the quality of the cae brand conversion pipes must be a bit hit-and-miss. my 4 into 1's fit good but i've heard a few people say they do not?

[304runner]

vee ard wot a load of shit $6000 in the right hands on a 304 on a drag strip you got a quick car compared to a stock ls1 in same car yaeh good luck with that

Well the thread is openmy friend.. Slap some ideas down and I can decide which way id like ot go. Thats the who reason for this thread... What would you do.... Im not going to spend 6k on a conversion then spend another 6 on making it go like the clappers... One or the other

Discuss

[sporty custom]

ok mate 6000 on a conversion then you start again with a stock motor.i would stick with the 304 put a under bonnett supercharger on it and go from there like you said you know how to use a spanner ive a 304 runs 8.8 over the 1/8 its only stock with 3000hi stall and shift kit .plenty of gen 3s running 9.3 9.1 so dont underestimate the aussie v8 im putting a eaton 112 on mine this year so hopefully it might run a high very high 7 not bad for a 304.

[Brendo169]

whats your budget?

[Reaper]

ok mate 6000 on a conversion then you start again with a stock motor.i would stick with the 304 put a under bonnett supercharger on it and go from there like you said you know how to use a spanner ive a 304 runs 8.8 over the 1/8 its only stock with 3000hi stall and shift kit .plenty of gen 3s running 9.3 9.1 so dont underestimate the aussie v8 im putting a eaton 112 on mine this year so hopefully it might run a high very high 7 not bad for a 304.

The point is that a mild LS1 will be as quick if not faster than a 5 litre that has had a ton of money spent on it. I'd suggest $6k is a very ambitious budget - probably closer to $10k but I'd suggest it's still the most cost effective way. I'd run an otherwise healthy stock LS1 with a mafless tune. Should outrun all but the wildest 5 litre. Less weight over the front wheels too if memory serves.

Reaper

[304runner]

I can see your point Reaper, I did a heap of research on this forum to try and talk myself into/out of doing a conversion and the only thing I came accross that didnt sit well with me was the magic number "10"... 10 being the amount of thousnds they had spent on doing it So naturally I thought it was like flogging a dead horse. But I have done conversions before and I have always come in way under the estimated price.

Im in the building game so I see first hand every day how easy budget is blown out. I have no kids or a missus and pretty much zero responsability so id rather spend the money now before I end up in the same situation as my mates where they stop halfway on their build because the wife found out how much it was costing or they have to sell it to pay for a deposit on a house blah blah blah....

I'll make some calls to a few contacts in regards to the large and rather obvious parts required for the conversion ie: engine, gearbox, pedal box, ecu ect... With this on paper I can go from there. I'll put the prices here in the forum and you can let me know what you think.


[EDIT] ok, so I can get the Engine, gearbox, pedal box, ecu + harness and dash for $3800... So as far as conversion costs go, im off to a good start... Now I gotta see what k frame mods I need to do....

[hsv91ss]

think I have seen this ute before. Would be worth doing the conversion on it. If it was me though, I would save my money sell the current ute and get a VY-VZ SS.

[Jarryd F]

if you can drop in the ls1 yourself for around $6k like you said, then go for it. The only issue I see is that after you've done the conversion, Id bet my money that you wish you spent it on a newer car.

[304runner]

Food for thought boys, Cheers for the input

[VS 5.0]

Vote 1 for the 304...spend the coin on that.

[ParkwayDrv]

+1 for ls1 conversion.

[GEN3RATD]

Less then 15k will get you a drive in drive out cammed LS3 making over 450rwhp.

[dirt drifter]

the pedal box u speak of, is it out of a late vs hydraulic clutch equipped car or the ls1 donor car? apparently (so i've heard) the later pedal box wont fit into an earlier car.

k-frame.. i've seen threads elsewhere where guys have had to take a little bit out of the k-frames flat bracing bits of steel around the corners of the sump, but mine hasn't needed this done (its got a crs mount kit with about 1cm clearance) but if the engine mounts sagged over time it might be a different story. look up "tuff mount" i would spend the extra myself and get them, especially if u intend on giving it a hard time

[sporty custom]

upto 15k wow big bucks id now say #### both them motors buy a vl put big hair dryer on it and hang on lol

[Grennan]

End of the day as well, youre going to have to sit inside that same VR interior as well. You can pick up a nice LS1 with a T56 for under 15 grand quite easily. I rekon youd be able to find a VX for around 12ish with a T56 and have enough cash left over to get it Mafless Tuned and youll be pushing 220 rwkw without much issue. Youd also have a nicer interior.

If you looked hard enough you could probably even find a VY with a T56 for around that price.

In the end I think a conversion is a waste of money. Either buy a car with a LS1 in it or do up the 304. Question you have to ask is what do you want. A done up 304 is going to sound insane. Its going to look great and youll look at it and it will be a fast 5 litre car. Other hand its not going to be as quick as a mild LS1.

If you love your VR id say do it up.

[sporty custom]

grennan i like your way of thinking its all decicided what you want but like you said you wanna go fast and be in comfort or go fast with some comfort and of the day go with wat you like but i like the sound of wild as hell 304 cheers lads

[blo304]

IF You can do mostly everything yourself you could go faster spending the money on the 304 using fi, anyone who thinks otherwise $ for $ is a fool.

Anywhere from 4-7k in parts will have you a turbo setup punching out about 280-300rwkw... 6-7k will net you a stock as a rock ls1 conversion making roughly 180rwkw un-tuned as a base to then spend further money.

So in my eyes the answer is simple.. want to keep your car work with what you got unless your chasing LOTSA power.. if you want lsX buy the whole car.

[azkwazere]

Yeah but if you spend the money on a VX or something you will then be stuck with a VX at the end of the day so you might aswell spend a bit more an get a VE...but then your stuck with the VE at the end of the day and, well, its a VE and they are a few years old now so your better off just waiting for the VF...but then, you know, thats not here yet so you might as well just do the LS1, but thats already like 10k so you might as well just do the LS3 for a few grand more...but then F1 cars are making a lot more power than that again so your wasting your money with the V8 anyway, better of looking for a V10/V12 setup and doing the conversion... But then again your car can only drive on the road so your wasting your money again.. better of selling the ute and buying a commerical airliner or something then you can fly and do like 900km/h at the same time which is faster than the LS1..

My point is, there is always a 'better option' - Personally? Do what ever the hell you want to do which will make you happy. Your really only going to have the car for short time span anyway 5-10years max. Do you really want to invest all that cash into an LS1 conversion (or better) and then have it written off or sell it for far less than you invested?

Do something fun and just work what you got. Spend the cash on the 304, get it rebuild, some more power and enjoy it while it lasts. You obviously like your car so just make the engine a bit more powerful and then enjoy the car for a bit before you move on. Your never going to have the fastest car out there so theres no point worrying about bang-for-buck. Just do the simple option and work the 5ltr..

There will be a few other memebers who will soon tell you that spending money on your car is pointless and you should invest it so you can buy a better house.

Do what feels good, its usually the right thing.

aZk.