Yet another oil thread

[Krilnik]

Ok, time for a new oil thread as most of the old threads are simply too old.

VS Series 2. 140,000k's.

Do you guys think HPR10 10W50 is too thin for an Ecotec? One mechanic tells me its way too thin and the engine wont last a month.

Another mechanic tells me its fine.

What the???????????

Does anyone else here use HPR10 in an Ecotec that's done over 140,000k's?

Get any rattles, piston slap or rough engine noise from it?

[cander24]

You're going to get many mixed opinions and experiences, and these threads often turn into a war, but personally I wouldn't go quite that thin with an ecotec. I run HPR30 20w-60 in ecotecs and this is what i'd recommend. I wouldn't go much thinner than a 15 weight multigrade such as a 15w-50 etc.
I've found the lifters can bleed too much and struggle to pump sufficient oil on start up with a 10 weight multigrade and therefore result in noisy lifters for a min or so.
I'd generally recommend not changing too much off the manufacturers recommendation which is 20w-50 in the vs v6

[Krilnik]

Thanks for the response.

In that case, i might go the Shell Helix HX7 K 15W50. Its a semi synthetic and i wanna use a semi synthetic.

What do people think about Shell Helix oils? Yay, nay? Crap. Don't bother? Made my engine noisy. etc etc etc...?

I don't wanna use Penrites HPR15 15W60 - the 60 part scares me and seems to be way too thick.

[someguy360]

I would use the penrite

I have never heard good things about helix oils

If you really want to go with a semi synthetic I would go for either Penrite or Castrol

I would still recommend sticking with the manufacturers advice and going for something around the 20w50 range

I ran semi synthetic in my ecotec for a few months and it wasn't great, got knocks and ticks on cold starts.

Went back to Castrol 20w50 and engine has been smooth as silk since

[Krilnik]

Awesome, that's the kind of thing i wanna hear.

Thanks for sharing your experiences....

[The1]

it turns into is it to thick or to thin to pump when cold or hot to get the required pressure/flow rate, holden speced 20w50 so it must have the required specs for the engine they built, personally with oil you get what you pay for performance wise, but longivity you can't say here nor there or prove fact, ive seen engines running $10 oil but with regular changes and have 300,000km or more on them and havn't been touched. So i think it's more a fact of keep your oil clean is a must.

[cander24]

I don't wanna use Penrites HPR15W60 - the 60 part scares me and seems to be way too thick.

The 60 figure does not represent an oil weight or viscosity, but rather the oils ability to withstand viscosity change under differing conditions. i.e in theory a 15w-40 oil at normal operating temp will have a greater viscosity change to say, a 15w-60, which is still closer to the original viscosity. A higher second number is actually a good thing.
Keeping in mind this is just my opinion, but if you want to run a semi-synthetic multigrade i'd go with the HRP15 15w-60

[Burnout124]

well like posted a bove 15w-40, 20w-50 are fine for ecotecs but 10w-30 is recomended for the vy ecotec i run 10w-30 in mine hand it has 179,000km on it as long as your engine is in good nick yours will be fine any of these as a merchanic i get these questions all the time but at the end of the day it is a personal choice just make shoure the oil you use is a sl,sm spec and you should be right .

[nathanVY]

I've run mine on penrite 15w50 and i think it could be rooted

[Krilnik]

I've run mine on penrite 15w50 and i think it could be rooted

Are you saying the Penrite Full Synthetic 15w50 was the cause of some form of engine issue/damage for you?

[nathanVY]

Wasn't full synthetic, semi synthetic. Nah not saying that at all but maybe it would've turned out differently if I'd used thicker oil?

Not sure exactly what the problem is yet but it's got me worried.

[Krilnik]

Penrite don't make a semi synthetic 15w 50.

You must be referring to the 15w60 "extra ten" HPR15 oil which i think will now be the way to go for my next oil change.

[monkeys437]

I use Nulon synthetic 10W40 in my VS l67 and have done for the last 100k. Its got 250k in total and still going good. Some say its way too thin but I think the trick is regular changes. My oil rarely sees 10k or 6 months whereas i know people that go years and years between services. If there are any issues from running oil this thin im yet to see them

[Bourbonated]

I use the HPR15. The first time I put it in my car, it chewed it (Newcastle -> Melbourne = Gone) Since then, it's been through maybe 2mm on the dipstick and it's time for another oil change.

[nathanVY]

yeah same diff lol.

[The1]

SAE is the oil ratings standard at which our oils are measured against, for EG 20W 50 which is the measurement of COLD pumping and
cranking at a certain temperature point, then the second number is Viscosity rating @ 100 Deg C.

Cranking and Pumping are measured in centipoise, the oil has to meet certain measurements to achieve a rating number.

The Second number is measured in Kinematic centistokes, this is measured @ 100 Deg C and has to meet a MIN and MAX range to determine
it's rating number.

Centipoise as i understand it is related to centistokes, 1 poise of fluid has the density of 1 gram per cubic centimeter and the
kinematic viscosity of 1 stoke, 1 stoke is 1 centimeter squared per second.

So For eg the stock oil 20W 50

20W(Winter or Cold) Rating is 4500 centipoise @ -10 Deg C While Cranking and 60,000 centipoise @ - 20 Deg C while Pumping these are MAX
ratings, if it was a higher centipoise number it would then go into the 25W Viscosity Grade. So 20W oil when @ -10 Deg C Cranks oil at
4500 centipoise, which is 0.04500 grams per cubic centimeter and moves @ 0.04500 centimeters squared per second.

50 Rating is 16.3 Centistokes MIN @ 100 Deg C and 21.9 Centistokes MAX @ 100 DEG c. so the oil flow will be between 0.163 & 0.219
Centimeters squared per second @ 100 Deg C, outside of this range then will cause oil shear or stress.

So to those people running 60 Rating oils it will be 21.9 Centistokes MIN & 26.1 Centistokes max so the oil flow @ 100Deg C will be
greater.

Also the Different winter grades remain relitivly the same measurements, just the temperature drops so the viscosity that 15w achieves
while cranking @ -15 Deg is the same as 10w but while cranking at -20 Deg C, so this may mean different centipoise figures above these
temperatures So a Low W number may aid in cold starting even though the oil is not at negative whatever..

0W -30C Crank -40C Pumping
5W -25C Crank -35C Pumping
10W -20C Crank -30C Pumping
15W -15C Crank -25C Pumping
20W -10C Crank -20C Pumping
25W -5C Crank -15C Pumping

Hot Ratings MIN MAX @ 100 Deg C
20 5.6 9.3
30 9.3 12.5
40 12.5 16.3
50 16.3 21.9
60 21.9 26.1

Here's a handy calculator
Calculator

So now you can go onto your oil brands website download there spec sheet and compair it against a competitors oil to check there cold and
hot ratings. Note i may have some calculations wrong please correct me, it's all on the net & books anyway.

[scvs6]

I use Mobil 10w40 Semi Synthetic oil in my VS (ecotec V6) and WH Statesman (ecotec V6) and never have had a problem. VS has done 300,XXXkms and i service it every 5,000kms.

[HOLDENFAN]

in my opinion id be running something a bit thicker in an ecotec with that many km's, Over 200kms I would use a minimum of 15w40, and over 300 id be looking at a 20w50 or the Penrite HPR15 at least.

[The1]

i dont get what your trying to achieve using a non standard oil though?

[HOLDENFAN]

i dont get what your trying to achieve using a non standard oil though?

off the top of my head for the buick V6, holden recommend a 20w50 oil, or for cold climates, a 15w30(or40). Oil quality has changed alot in the last 15 years or so i've read recently, and due to that alot of oils that were available are becoming redundant (20w40 being one of the most popular, as newer 15w40 does essentially the same job). Same as now 15w60 (the hpr15+ i believe),i've seen used alot on forums recently whereas 10 years back things like w60 grade were only generally used in older engines that used a fair bit of oil. Using a thicker oil in older engines can be beneficial for obvious reasons, (we've all read stories of people trying to put mobil 1 and such in there older engines and they leak and use oil), having a better thickness at operating temperature. I guess if your engines not leaking or using oil, there's no real reason to go to a thicker oil, but with todays climate and traffic conditions, cars getting hotter and so on, going to a slightly higher grade oil wont hurt your engine at all.

[Krilnik]

"going to a slightly higher grade oil wont hurt your engine at all."

What about here in Melbourne where cars sit outside all night in 2 degree temperatures in frosty and freezing winter mornings?

We don't all have garages to park our cars in.

That's why i want to stay away from a 20w oil in winter. Just too cold for such a thick oil. They say something like 85% of engine wear occurs at startup don't they??

People in the US laugh at us Aussies for using such thick oils. Take Texas for example, similar weather conditions to Australia in winter yet they wouldn't dream of using 20w oils, even in their massive V8 donks. I've been reading http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...s.php?ubb=cfrm for a while now. Its amazing how many times these yanks don't believe that we use 20w50 oil in the same Buick Ecotecs that they also run in Impalas etc. The same Ecotec motor in the US is recommended using a 10w30 in SUMMER....yet Holden tell us to use a 20w50 in Winter.

Same motor, similar temperature conditions. Massively different oil recommendations.

[Brett_jjj]

Ive been using the semi synthetic penrite HPR 15 15W-60 oil for a few years now,and Ive had excellent results from it.Ive been wanting to switch to a full synthetic oil for a while, so the last oil change I did,I changed to mobil 1 5W-50,This oil so far has been excellent and the engine seems to run slightly quieter than with the penrite HPR 15..The next oil change I do,Im going to use the mobil 1 15W-50,which is more suited to the V6.I change my oil and filter every 5000,K's..

[HOLDENFAN]

I was more talking about the operating temperature rating, ie going from a 15w30 to a 15w40. What you said is entirely correct. In fact 15w40 is what I would use for a buick/eco that doesnt use any or leak any oil. If those problems are starting to occur, a 20w50 may help, though as brett said above the 15w-60 seems to be a very popular choice these days, seems like a nice broad spectrum. I may try it myself next time.

[The1]

"going to a slightly higher grade oil wont hurt your engine at all."

What about here in Melbourne where cars sit outside all night in 2 degree temperatures in frosty and freezing winter mornings?

We don't all have garages to park our cars in.

That's why i want to stay away from a 20w oil in winter. Just too cold for such a thick oil. They say something like 85% of engine wear occurs at startup don't they??

People in the US laugh at us Aussies for using such thick oils. Take Texas for example, similar weather conditions to Australia in winter yet they wouldn't dream of using 20w oils, even in their massive V8 donks. I've been reading Bob Is The Oil Guy - Forums powered by UBB.threads™ for a while now. Its amazing how many times these yanks don't believe that we use 20w50 oil in the same Buick Ecotecs that they also run in Impalas etc. The same Ecotec motor in the US is recommended using a 10w30 in SUMMER....yet Holden tell us to use a 20w50 in Winter.

Same motor, similar temperature conditions. Massively different oil recommendations.

Sorry i was referring to the hot rating 50, i use 15w myself as 20w doesn't accommodate where i live it gets colder than the rating allows, hot ratings though i dont understand why people use 30 and 40 weight oils, your not achieving anything, only more wear on components and potentially more oil consumption. Holden speced 50 for a reason, internal velocities, heat absorption rate, film wear, there'd be a million reasons why they did it.

[The1]

off the top of my head for the buick V6, holden recommend a 20w50 oil, or for cold climates, a 15w30(or40). Oil quality has changed alot in the last 15 years or so i've read recently, and due to that alot of oils that were available are becoming redundant (20w40 being one of the most popular, as newer 15w40 does essentially the same job). Same as now 15w60 (the hpr15+ i believe),i've seen used alot on forums recently whereas 10 years back things like w60 grade were only generally used in older engines that used a fair bit of oil. Using a thicker oil in older engines can be beneficial for obvious reasons, (we've all read stories of people trying to put mobil 1 and such in there older engines and they leak and use oil), having a better thickness at operating temperature. I guess if your engines not leaking or using oil, there's no real reason to go to a thicker oil, but with todays climate and traffic conditions, cars getting hotter and so on, going to a slightly higher grade oil wont hurt your engine at all.

Yeh ive read that but never seen any proof or evidence, ive been using mobil 1 in my cars for years without issues, funny thing is 3/4 of the worlds base stock oil supply is made and sold by exxon mobil, so some part of the oil in your car right now is mobil, there also one of the biggest companies who spend $$$ on R&D. Id be likely to trust them more over a little company mixing there own synthetic brews.