VS V6 Camshaft & and lifter's change
Hi every one my next project on the VS is to change the Camshaft & and lifter's i cam across this website and just wanted to know if these (COMP Cams: High Energy™, 268H: Cam & Lifters)
would be fine to put in the next thing is how do you change it the most i have taken off a motor was to change the inlet manifold gaskets about to weeks ago and if/when i change them will i have to get a tune will i have to do anything like the timing chain ?
thanks Darcy
A Memcal a Day Keeps..
tune it definatly, id be putting either a new single or double row chain, dont reuse the old one
TTT have lifters for ecotec
http://www.tttperformance.com.au/itemdetailspage/6305
there lots of different cams, do a search and have a read
Grab yourself a Gregory's manual. Very detailed and should make it reasonably straight forward if you're competent on the tools. That cam is not that big, so I don't think it would warrant a double row timing chain if you wanted to spare the expense as it should be fine with the stock 90lb spring seat pressure. The balance shaft must also be disabled or removed with a double roller. A new single row chain would be very wise though. Just make sure that cam actually suits the ecotec as it says its to suit a hydraulic flat tappet lifter, which the ecotec isn't, they're a hydraulic roller lifter.
Because its only small, it should run 'ok' on the stock tune, but of course would perform best with a tune to suit.
Easiest to change with the motor out of the car as the cam feeds in from the front. I've not done it this way, but you could also probably do it in the car if you removed everything infront of the motor, i.e. front bar, fan, radiator and ac condensor (yes this means you lose your ac gas).
Briefly though, you'd need to remove plenum, inlet manifold, alternator, heater pipes, rocker covers, rockers and pushrods, lifters, harmonic balancer, timing cover, timing chain and tensioner. Thats the bulk of it off the top of my head. Bear in mind too that with the stock timing chain and keyways with an aftermarket cam there is no ability to advance or retard the timing to dial it in and therefore by just installing it 'dot to dot' you're relying on the cam to be ground 100% where it should (which they're often not).
Personally though i'd go a little bigger than that cam for the effort involved. Keep in mind though a bigger cam requires more supporting mods if you want it to last and perform its best.
Hope that gives you a start.
Cheers
okay all seems a little bit to much work and a bit to much money for me as im only 16 so i might just look at getting a better exhaust thanks for your help anyway
look around but go for it darcy im 16 and im definately getting a cam.
cander24 ive been looking around at cams and im not sure which ways the best to go. im after a mid-range cam. with the peak power from 2500-4500 rpm. i want a mean(p-plate legal) street car and im not planning to drag race it. if i keep the rpm 5000 or below will i still need to upgrade to 105-130 lb springs? im getting a double row timing chain set as my original chains had it and the auto tensioner broke apart and pieces are in my oil pickup... thats not an issue haha. would i be better off getting a cam and chip package (like the stage 2 crow cam and chip from mace) or getting a custom cam and a custom tune? id really appreciate your advice.
Keeping in mind im certainly no expert, here’s my 2 centsOriginally Posted by nalchlan
Do you have the exact specs of that ‘crow stage 2’ i.e valve timing, duration, lift etc. I think if its less than 0.500” lift and you don’t get crazy with the revs you’ll probably be fine with the stock springs assuming they haven’t done a huge amount of kms. Remember that with use and heat the springs will slowly fatigue and soften and therefore lose seat pressure and become more prone to ‘valve bouncing’. Stem seals would also be wise to replace while you’re at it (also due to the increased valve lift).
The double roller timing chain is certainly a good bit of gear and a good investment for any modified motor. Keep in mind though this is not a straight swap for the factory single chain and tensioner. The double roller does not use a tensioner and due to clearance issues you cannot retain the factory balance shaft (a good thing in my opinion if you research exactly what it does and the power it steals to drive it). If you’re doing the cam in the car you can do this by just removing the front bevel cut drive gear on the shaft. Effectively it’ll just sit there doing nothing. If the motor is out of the car you can remove it completely. The rear oiling hole to the balance shaft whitemetal bearing needs to be blocked off doing it this way (how I’ve done it).
Then there’s the problem of the double roller dragging on the face of the oil pump cover once again due to clearance issues. This can be overcome one of 2 ways. Use 2 timing cover gaskets to space the timing cover a little further off the front of the block, or, have the oil pump cover surface ground to reduce its thickness (Steve at Mace actually sells these). I would also recommend only using a genuine GM timing cover gasket as they are thicker and a harder compound than most aftermarket versions.
There’s a few manufacturers for double rollers to suit the ecotec. Rollmaster and JP are good, just make sure they’re supplied with an ‘iwis’ chain and not a cheaper chinese version as JP was doing at one stage.
With any change of cam I’d also recommend fitting new lifters as a necessity.
Have a chat to Steve at Mace too. He could provide you with more advice and all the parts necessary at a good price.
Hope that helps,
Chris.
'stage 2 crow cam'
· 222°/222° at .050"
· Intake Lift .260" (.514" lift at 1.98:1 rocker ratio)
· Exhaust Lift .260" (.514" lift at 1.98:1 rocker ratio)
· 114 LSA
obviously ill be getting a cam designed for stock rockers but this is just the one on maces site
this is 12° more than the stage one crow cam and 6° more than the stage 2 comp cam i was looking at. the comp cam is also 111 LSA instead of 114. how does a lower or higher lobe seperation angle change the how much and where the power is made.
im probably going to get 105 lb springs and retainers to suit as im going to replace the old ones anyway, as well as the double row timing chain. ill replace the seals too. but probably with stock ones ($)
thank you for your advice
ill call mace tomorrow but im just after as much advice as possible
I'm just a little curious about doing the double gasket for the timing cover.
Can you still get the five bolts back in under the cover or do the holes in the sump need to be slotted to account for the second gasket?
If your lifters are noisy then you can always linish the rocker pedestals or run slightly longer pushrods, to increase lifter crush. This ofter cures a tired lifter without the expense and trouble of swapping lifters over. Otherwise we also supply quality crow lifters for the job.
This aside though, if you wanted to go down the path of swapping cams we also have Comp cam and memcal packages for the S1 and S2 cam for $680 at the moment, just not advertised on our site yet
Cheers,
Steve
MACE Engineering Group
www.maceengineering.com.au
Powering Australia's best Commodores
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MaceEngineering
The camshaft lobes and the lifters wear in together from new,and once they wear in together,they get "work hardened" running faces,they kind of end up like a matched set so to speak, so the lifters should ALWAYS be renewed if a new camshaft is fitted to an engine.9 out of 10 respected engine builders will tell you this.Used lifters that have a work hardened running face will wear down a new camshaft lobe in no time..
Right Foot Action
Bro might wanna search for cam and lifters for a your V6 not a V8
Off the top of my head the GM timing cover gaskets are approx 0.040" (approx 1mm) thick and given the sump bolts are not the greatest tolerance fit you shouldn't have any dramas, but yes worst case scenario it may require a very minor elongation of the front holes in the sump.
@ Munz Bro might wanna search for cam and lifters for a your V6 not a V8
Thanks for that buddy didn't even think about it till you told me LOL
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