Minispool - how much tyre damage etc. when driving normally?

[the_panther]

G'day all.

now a few quick questions to the owners of vs ecotecs with a spool.
Ive read all the threads about spools that i could find but couldnt find an answer.

How much damage do they do to the tyres when the car is driven grandpa spec?
Do you notice much skipping in a carpark at low speeds?

I ask cos 18's arent too cheap.

Now I'm not looking to be a burnout warrior, or go fast down the 1/4. Its just that the roads around here are shit. hilly and shit.

The single pegger has often been spinning at wet hill starts, and lets not even mention the rear end doing whatever it wants if it does slip out.
I am fairly confident in my driving abilities, and i want to have more control over my car.

I am also aware of the increased risk of snapping an axle, the way i see it is i havent broken one yet, and from all reports they break from sudden torque/acceleration.
with grandpa spec driving, im not too worried. But should I be?

Im not wanting a flame war over spools being Illegal etc. I am well aware of their legal status, however an LSD would be both unpractical and inadvisable.

Thanks for reading

[wraith]

Why is an LSD unpractical and inadvisable?

[jesse_lankey]

they are terrible for parking and slow corners this is what puts strain on the axels, try it and see what you think, a tight lsd would however suit your needs

[Brett_jjj]

As well as tyres wearing slightly quicker, a locked up diff will put extra stress on suspension parts,and the body and driveline..

[the_panther]

Because we have 2 cactus ones under the house, another few were sold last year.
We have them in the IRS statesmans, they are a dime a dozen, hence replacing the whole unit became viable when they became slack. and noisy.

For solid axle, you dont see them a whole bunch, and i dont really like the idea of it getting slack like the others ive driven. Dads cars, who is a grandpa and they still slacken.
Also, price is pretty awesome. i can pick one up for $90 & can install at home in the workshop, so no garage fees.

[wraith]

You do realise cops are clued onto mini spools right? Have heard of them getting the car to do a u turn to check. A proper LSD like a true trac would be good. Seems like your minds already made up though

[Pub247]

you do realise that irs lsds fit live axles? and they re are probably easier to put in yourself than a minispool?

Having said that minispools are fair awesome if you got a decent amount of power they predictability is what them good

[the_panther]

nah my mind isnt made up. thats why im asking.
I have been picked up in the past, but i have never had a copper look over the car- let alone have it driven. (even by highway patrol)
Is it really that likely that an inspection would happen, and back to my questions that you dont seem to be answering, do they skip noticibly on 18s when parking etc.
Jesse ^^^ reckons they are craptacular for slow cornering, and i should keep an eye out for a cheap tight LSD.
Brett ^^^ reckons that added to slightly increased tyre wear you also have increased wear on componentry. again, to be expected, but maintenance around here is pretty good. interesting to note the strain on axles at low speed cornering. didnt think of that.. damn.

Ill be looking at driving up to the snow in a few weeks, and the idea of having locked back wheels while driving up the mountain is really appealing.

Wraith, i just googled the hell outta truetrac, i dont have 'spare' $1000 for a diff. i couldnt justify that on a v6 vs commodore. for that money id buy a few solid axle lsds and throw them out when they got slack!!

But anyway, do u drive with a spool, and if so do u notice significant wear to your tyres, shocks, bushes etc?

[Reaper]

I have both in my cars. The spool does wear rear tyres faster. No question about it. It also creates push under steer which makes cornering at speed a little different. For the strip they are hard to beat though. How often do you drag race the car??? If it's only a few times a year, I'd consider swapping back and forward between a reco LSD for the street and spool for the track.

Reaper

[TI3VOM]

Just buy a used LSD put that in and go from there, I mean how much research have you done on spools? and how much research have you done on LSD's?
A good LSD will last a long time before it get tired and worn out. I'm not a fan of spools any way as I can't see the benefit of them on a road car!

What are you looking for in a spool or LSD, better traction and is there anything else?

[the_panther]

G'day pub,

The irs diffs fit in live axle beastys? No i was not at all aware, tell me more!!

& yeah, its a fairly fresh motor thats been taken care of and mildly tweaked.

[Reaper]

G'day pub,

The irs diffs fit in live axle beastys? No i was not at all aware, tell me more!!

& yeah, its a fairly fresh motor thats been taken care of and mildly tweaked.

The gears, carrier and pinion are the same between the IRS and live axle centres.

Reaper

[the_panther]

Reaper, thanks for the comment on tyres. yeah no way around that one huh..? damn.
But im not looking to drag the car, its more for predictability and traction in the wet on the shitty roads around here.

TI3VOM, ive been looking around for a good lsd for a while and havent come across one in either good condition or for the right price. Iv done a fair amount of research on spools, and have worked on a few diffs over the years so picked up one or two things. however have never driven with a spool so i figured id ask the questions.
Im really only looking for predictability and traction. its not going to be hammered so nothing like a kaaz etc.

[the_panther]

The gears, carrier and pinion are the same between the IRS and live axle centres.

Reaper

thats freaking awesome!

[padrickz88]

To be honest, the reason why your lsd's have worn out and single pegged is because they are probably the same as the day they left the factory.. When they are rebuilt they are more then capable of doing what you need.

If you dont do burnouts and you dont drive hard, then an lsd will be fine, usually they are ok when rebuilt and apparently circle work is what kills because of uneven load between the 2 wheels..


BUT if you have made up your mind, the spool doesn't chew out your tyres much when your being responsible and generally you get less skip with bigger rims..
Also get soft tyres and people pretty much wont even know you have it, I have soft tyres and turn into booze buses fairly often (once a month probably atleast) and have to do about a 60 degree turn everytime and they dont suspect a thing.
The trick is to have light throttle to take up the slack in the driveline.
Also the axles part all depends on your driving, sudden shock is what stuffs them, I've daily driven my spool for about 3 years (roughly) and still on stock axles.. the 28 splines are actually pretty damn strong and take alot of abuse..

So goodluck dude but honestly, if you drive as much of a granny as you say you do then you dont really need a spool, the lsd's can take a fair beaten if rebuilt properly

[TrikkBen]

Mate you realise traction in the wet on shitty roads is all down to your right foot... Don't spool it you will reget it.

Put a nice reco limo in with a set of 3.4 or 3.9s.

If you have so many spare diffs lying around, weld up the spiders and drive around, it will give you a taste of a spool... As Reaper said, the understeer caused buy the locked diff is weird and isn't to good for the street...

Ben

[Stugdum]

Because we have 2 cactus ones under the house, another few were sold last year.
We have them in the IRS statesmans, they are a dime a dozen, hence replacing the whole unit became viable when they became slack. and noisy.

For solid axle, you dont see them a whole bunch, and i dont really like the idea of it getting slack like the others ive driven. Dads cars, who is a grandpa and they still slacken.
Also, price is pretty awesome. i can pick one up for $90 & can install at home in the workshop, so no garage fees.

I dont know what you've been doin' with them LSD's you trashed, but mine has done well over 400,000k's and only had to be fixed once about 10 year ago, and its still nice and tight. I change the oil regularly and I use the expensive Synthetic LSD oil not the cheap mineral stuff, do that and they should last you just about for ever. And I dont drive like a grandpa all the time either and for 6 years when I ran my own business it was a tradesmans ute, loaded to the hilt 24/7 with lots of heavy tools and materials. If youre trashing diffs you must be doing something wrong.

[old mate]

i had a minispool in my ute for a fair while. i didnt mind it except for how noticable the 'skipping' was at low speed. you always knew what the rear was up to, more traction in slippery spots (than an open diff), and also better drive on corner exits.

there was more tyre wear on the outside of the fronts, i think partly due to a locked diff at 50% pace loading them up more (understeer feeling). once you really started to push super hard it was great, in my case the balance was pretty much spot on for the road, a touch of understeer at the limit but if you got on the gas hard and early you could bring the back around to change lines.

i think its something that the OP will end up doing, but i can say that after a while i got sick of it and pulled it out. an LSD is a nicer thing on the street. a completely locked diff belongs in cars that spend alot of time at tracks, both drag and circuit.

[the_panther]

Ta for the replies!
k, from the top:
Padrikz, Thats the damn truth. All the diffs thru the years have been sourced 2nd hand over the years, probably not many ever saw a reshimming before we got em, and none since we had em. They were purchased tight and eventually slackened off or got noisy thats the only history i had on them. dad always went on about em never being the same and getting noisy after reshimming, so as they popped up over the years he would grab one.

You hit the nail on the head about the larger rims and softer tyres, i had heard it from a friend of a friend, but wasnt sure.

I cant afford to drive quick, fines arent fun and the cops around here are snap-happy.

Trikkben, true about that damn foot, however a single spinner cant take my roundabout & long sweeping hill with water over the road without breaking traction. sh1t but true. I dunno about welding the bits together, from what i understand from reapers post, i can gut one of dads old lsd diffs and take the crown, pinion gears and my housing in to get reshimmed and tightned.

Stadgum, no thrashing, no burnouts, they were my old mans cars! just old worn diffs. as said above, prob none ever saw a reco, just a top up of good oil.

Oldmate, thanks for your experience. The idea of understeer doesnt appeal to me, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I think ill see about swapping a old lsd centre into my open wheeler and then getting a diff joint to tightened it all up.
Seems to be a safer way to go, and from all opinions much more drivable.

[reeceo]

if ya got the money for an LSD get it. if not be cool. get a spool

[TrikkBen]

Btw I no way endorse welding diffs.. I simply said that as a quick way for you to feel what a spool feels like without costing you money.

[Andrew426]

I know this is probably not what you (or any other members) want to hear, but if you live on/around roads that are so bad you struggle to keep traction, maybe you would be better off selling your commodore and buying something like a legacy. I did. Now I never have traction problems, even in light snow.

Hell of a lot easier and cheaper than constantly changing/rebuilding LSDs in a car that is clearly unsuitable.

[RX25SE]

As with most of the above comments, go the LSD option. This will go some of the way to solving your problem without giving you new ones.

I think Andrew426 has the ultimate solution, buy a Subaru.
My Liberty drives rings around my Commodore.

[Cracka]

Get a Subaru or similar AWD car, you wont have issues with traction again provided you drive to the conditions.

[stuntmanmike]

You could give the spooled diff a crack and see if you like it and if it suits your driving style. If not then you may want to consider the LSD as what others have said within this posting after you have formed your own opinion. Safety on the road should not be compromised under any circumstances yadda yadda yadda...
Personally, I prefer the spooled 3rd member on the race track (straight line and powering corner exits) and the LSD for everyday driving. If you can avoid it then don't bother with welding the diff centre. Welding weakens the parent materials and is not the right way to engineer a solution for positive traction. And welding onto oily components made from cast materials that are microscopically porous will always result in poor weldability and material defects within the welds. These form weak spots in the weld that lead to the failures we all know about with these cheapo methods for a bit of fun. I never busted a diff without trying!
I don't know your driving style and it doesn't really matter as tyre scrub will be more apparent with a spool. The tyres will generally absorb approximately 50% of the energy dissipated by slip loads caused by scrubbing before shock loads transfer to already worn components (eg axle splines, pinion gears, uni joints, etc) If you can live with that then no worries.
On my "street" car I went from factory stock LSD to spool (for race track duties only) to open-wheel-single-spinner and now back to upgraded LSD. The upgraded LSD rules IMO. Best of luck and enjoy.