How many relays needed for power windows

[Ron41]

I have installed the two front regulators, the passenger side works when pressing the switch but the drivers side does not, the reg works as i tested it off the battery, so I went back to the wreckers were I brought it all and he give me 6 other switches to try but nothing worked, so he said he will get a good one sent down from Mebourne today, he was blaming the switch itself.

But when i got home i checked my gregories wiring diagram for power windows and it shows another relay for the drivers window [ which was not giving to me when i got it all ] , and also reading an old post here a member mentioned 2 relays are needed, one big 4 pin for power supply, and also a 5 pin one is needed for a window and to protect the BCM against faults from overload.

Can someone help me sort this out ?
thanks

[cander24]

Have you done all the wiring yourself? Or was it already there in your factory harnesses and you've just plugged in the components? Assuming the latter, have you fitted the relay for power windows above the fuse panel?

[ephect]

the how-to should have this info. the low bcm which you have from memory, doesnt have the internal relay which enables the auto-down feature of the drivers window. it will go up but not down, this is what your issue is. you can cut a green wire to bypass the auto-down and still retain time delay power on of the power windows.

if its not listed in the how-to, i know i have posted the info on what wires to cut and join.

[Adds_05]

yeah when i put power windows in my vr acclaim,i remember there being 2 relay holders to the left of the fuse panel under the dash which were for the power windows

[Ron41]

Have you done all the wiring yourself? Or was it already there in your factory harnesses and you've just plugged in the components? Assuming the latter, have you fitted the relay for power windows above the fuse panel?

Its a excutive, the wiring was already there for the front 2 doors and the plug for the back is behind the seat belt bolt down at the bottom of B piller.
Yes the relay [ 4 point ] has been put in.

[Ron41]

the how-to should have this info. the low bcm which you have from memory, doesnt have the internal relay which enables the auto-down feature of the drivers window. it will go up but not down, this is what your issue is. you can cut a green wire to bypass the auto-down and still retain time delay power on of the power windows.

if its not listed in the how-to, i know i have posted the info on what wires to cut and join.

The drivers side window won't work either way up or down, there is an empty spot for a relay at C1 right next to the relay for power windows.
Gregories manual says its the driver window relay at C1.

[Ron41]

yeah when i put power windows in my vr acclaim,i remember there being 2 relay holders to the left of the fuse panel under the dash which were for the power windows

They only me one relay a 4 pin one.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Adds_05]

i just had a look in my ss,the relay on the left which im pretty sure is a 5 pin relay is the auto down, the other window relay is 4 pin i think.
they both sit directly under the steering column,not in the fuse panel itself...

[ephect]

yea u need the (half size i think) 5pin relay

[Ron41]

Well just back and had a look at the bcm, it is a low bcm as you said, had a look were that 5 pin relay goes and it only has 2 lugs on it,so i have to work out how to bypass that wire.
This old bugger is a bit thick, how do you bypass that wire, i am not to good on wiring stuff so any help would be terrific.
Looking at my gregories wiring diagram, is it a thick green and orange wire that is used to bypass, were do you bypass it to ? as i said i am thick.

thanks

[Ron41]

I have been searching for hours but still nothing, but read on the net someone with a VT commy with the same problem, running a wire from the switch to the winder motor worked.
So looking at my VS gregories wiring diagram, if i run a wire from the blue wire on the r/front switch [the down wire] to the blue/white wire on the drivers window motor, will i be right.
thanks

[shane kal]

Look under dash above fuse panel for BCM you will see a dark green wire with a black line.
This is the input wire from window switch down blue wire.
This wire is current rated from switch blue down wire to the plug under centre console.
Where it goes to a thin wire to BCM green with black line.
This wire is normally negative until down is pressed then it goes positive.
The positive from the down switch when pressed goes to the BCM.
And then the BCM puts a timed positive out put out of a 16 pin connector on a green with white stripe wire.
This wire goes to a relay C1 and turns it on the relay then takes the Green with orange stripe from the window motor to positive.
in short if you don’t want to use the BCM then connect the Blue down wire to the motor wire green orange stripe.
Use wire rated the same as the window motor.
If you want to use the BCM make sure it is the right one I am not sure if they are all the same. also there are two relays one is a big 4 pin one called B on the fuse panel.
This one is to save battery and supply’s power to the system.
And the other is a 5 pin one called C1 this does the driver’s window and is needed to protect the BCM against faults through overload etc.
Also 2 fuses are used 1 fuse called 5 for the windows.
The other fuse goes to the radio but also has no markings related to the windows however it has something to do with the windows as they lose power when this fuse is removed.
Might just be my vs not sure but check it any way .

[ephect]

i'll check my wiring, but im sure i had all the lugs in C1 relay spot. Ron41, you may not have all the wiring, it might be worth reading over shane kal' post and bypass the bcm anotherway.

when i posted about bypassing the bcm, its kinda a half bypass.. its a bypass of the missing internal relay, but it still uses the bcm for time delay and switches on the windows when you unlock the car.

[Ron41]

Thanks very much, I haven't got much time today but will check it out tomorrow.

thanks again

[shane kal]

bypass BCM power window .rarBCM bypass circuit power window drivers side
BCM circuit power window drivers side
this is a winrar file sorry i couldent upload pics with out compression
UPDATED CIRCUIT
THE POSITIVE IS RED WITH YELLOW STRIPE THE RED IS FROM THE CHILD LOCK WHEN PRESSED IT GOES POSTIVE IT CONNECTS TO RED WITH YELLOW STRIPE AS A SWITCH ON OFF

[Ron41]

Thanks shane for the diagram, trouble i am having is, there is no power to the drivers side window at all, tested it with my multimeter and nothing, the window can't even go up.

Don't know what is going on with my car, i put the rear passenger window reg and wiring this morning and there is no power there either, the only window that does work is the passenger front., i haven't put the drivers rear window in yet.

Does anyone know how to get that plastic cover off, the one that the carpet gets tucked into, i want to suss out the wiring there ?

[ephect]

The reason u have no power is ur missing the lugs in the 5pin relay, so u don't have the full wiring loom behind the scenes.

U'll have to check the wirin diag to see what your missing.

[Ron41]

Thanks ephect, yeah mate has to be that, hope i can sort it out soon.

[djvass]

ephect way helped me with my issue as i was not getting any power to my drivers side window. Bypassing it fixed my issue and made the window go up and down. I canonly remeber putting in one relay fuse and the silver window fuse.

[Ron41]

Great mate, I thought that bypass was only to get the window to go down, what colour wires did you use ?
Looking at shanes diagram, it looks like the bypass is from the green black and another green wire from the bcm to the green orange stripe wire to the window motor.on the drivers side.

I know i have to see what wires are going to the back of the C1 relay but buggered if i can work out how to get in there to have a look, plus how to get that grey plastic off to check the wires that go to the back of passenger rear motor, i would have thought they would run off the same loom as the front passenger window that works fine.

[shane kal]

I made a mistake the red wire goes to back windows from child lock out switch it is positive for them. lack of sleap i say.
The red with yellow stripe goes to positive.
The back window buttons get there power from the child lock out button.
This child lock out button connects the red wire to the red with yellow stripe wire giving the rear window switches positive.
You already have positive on your passenger window from the fuse and 4 pin relay the big one.
The positive is on the left middle pin of the relay holder B.
If you have no power to your back window switches try pushing the child lock out button.
The 5 pin relay has nothing to do with any other window but the driver’s window and the relay is not needed if you don’t want the auto down function from the BCM.
I rechecked the wiring in the car and know this for a fact.
Also the green leds light up in the switches when you have correct power to the switches.
I also know the red with yellow stripe connects to both switch panels.
And they both go to the same Positive from the left middle pin on relay B the black wire is ground and is never switched just grounded .
If you don’t have power on the drivers switch i want you to re check the red with yellow stripe for positive when car is turned on.
And if you still don’t have positive on the drivers switch the rear windows won’t work.
The rear windows get there power from the positive and negative from the front driver’s window switch
The rear back Passenger negitive comes from the front Passenger rear button i hope that made sense it is right though.
If you dont have leds working on drivers side front You can and should now connect both of the red with yellow stripe wires together just strip them back don’t cut them then use another piece of wire to connect them this can be under the switches after or before the plugs from the switches all you want to do is connect both positive to both switches together this is how they were supposed to be anyway.
Now check the negative black wire on the drivers switch i know the passenger’s side has negative as it works i am not so sure if your driver’s side has negative it should though.
If it doesn’t join the black wires together like the positive as both front window switches share the same Positive and the same Negative for whatever reason yours may not.
Also the rear switch needs to be plugged into loom and into the motor if the rear switch is broken the front switch wont drive the motor as it uses the rear switch to complete the negative and positive path to the motor.
And if the child lock button is broken the rear windows buttons won’t work at all as this switch gives positive to them.
And if the drivers switch does not have negative on both pins for the rear window button just under the rear window button and not the yellow or blue or red or red with yellow stripe wirers the other two left over wires and with no button being pressed then this switch is faulty.
Also if the driver’s side switch for driver’s side window doesn’t have negative on the yellow wire and negitive on the blue wire with no button being pressed then the switch is faulty.
In fact all the window motors with no button being pressed should be negative and when you push up or down it changes one of the two wires to the motor to positive depending if up or down was pressed.
Also the reason your front window wont go up is beacuse you havent done the bypass BCM yet.
relay C5 when no button is being pressed is giving the drivers side window motor negitive just like the drives side up down switch will do once it is rerouted to the right spot as said in BCM bypass.
Hope this helps you out.
You are so close don’t give up yet they will be working in no time.

[Ron41]

Thanks very much shane for all the information,this does really help me out, I really appreciate it.
I am pushed for time at the moment but will put the last reg in tomorrow then study all your info.

thanks mate & of course ephect as well.

[Ron41]

Well got my drivers rear regulator in and wiring today and done the BCM bypass, the front 2 windows are working great now but the back 2 are not working worst luck.

The 2 front console switches all 4 little green lights are on but the back switches don't light up at all.
I have pressed the child lock button numerous times but doesn't do anything as far making the rear ones work.

Would it the the child lock button be nackered making this happen ,any way around this child lock thing if it is that ?
Or could i be stiff enough to have two stuffed rear switches ?
appreciate any help
thanks

[shane kal]

if you connect the red wire under the child lock to the red and yellow wire next to under the child lock this will give the back windows positive.
and did you check the back window buttons up front for negative on the 2 wires under Neath both of them that’s 4 wires that need to be negative with no button press 2 for 1 side rear and 2 for the other side rear

[Ron41]

Thanks Shane, I am only guessing how to check for negative,so if I put my multimeter on volts and put the two probes on those wires mentioned above and i get no reading from them, is that how to do it ?
thanks again