Car won't start !?

[jtwizzy]

Hey guys ! ... recently bought a VS calais with an ecotec, 140,xxx on the car, fairly clean and stock as a rock, perfect start for a project !

First couple of days she was all sweet then decided to stop starting

It's been at the mechanics, has had a brand new crank angle sensor, fuel pump and filter & DFI module fitted

After all those parts where fitted it started ( success ! ) then it was turned off, not long after it was started again to move it around the workshop but won't turn over !?

Has half a tank of fresh fuel, new battery etc

The mechanic is stomped on what it is ?! ... His thinking a bad earth even ?! ... He checked the codes and it's all fine, has fuel and spark as well.

Any help would be greatly appreciated !!

Cheers

Josh

[seq4x4]

Is it cranking or not?

[jtwizzy]

Yer mate it's cranking but won't turn over

[seq4x4]

Remove the fuel lines from the back of the rails. Turn the ignition on. If fuels coming out, then put them back on and try the injectors. Fuel makes it past that, test all your sparking areas.

[ephect]

Remove the fuel lines from the back of the rails. Turn the ignition on. If fuels coming out, then put them back on and try the injectors. Fuel makes it past that, test all your sparking areas.

Please do the reverse, test spark first then fuel.. no fire is needed. Or wait until the excess fuel is dry or cleaned off thoroughly.

Could be pump has shit itself.

So it's cranking but it won't run? Does it sound like it wants to start?

[jtwizzy]

tryed all as above and still nothing ?!

tried 3 different ( brand new and old ) crank angle sensors and still nothing !?

where suspecting next that it could be a ecu ?

ephect - it's cranking but doesn't want to turn over ... it did yesterday for like 5 mins, coughing and spluttering and back firing and now it won't start at all ( still cranks )

[FstStig]

Holly hell a VS with an ecotec, they are about as rare as the next vs v6 with an ecotec...... As for you're problem I would be checking you're injectors, doubtful it's you're ECU but that is not to rule it out as you're ECU basically turns on you're injectors. You had the DFI module changed but not the ignition coils?

[PRAVX II S]

So you said you get spark and have changed the fuel pump.
Do you have injector trigger? If there is no injector trigger the fuel is not going in the combustion even though the fuel pump is working.
Check for spark first. then fuel pressure then injector trigger/pulse.

[jtwizzy]

Black_Stig - if i was looking for sarcasm i'd ask this question on another forum with people who have no experience ... ignition coils where done before i purchased the car

PRAVX II S - Will check that tomorrow bud !

[jtwizzy]

So the car has everything

Spark, injector pulse, etc etc

Checked the tank with the lines off to see if it was pumping fuel and nothing

replaced the fuel sender as the pump was brand new ... car started for 5 mins then started to cough and splutter etc and died

tried to start again and went back to its same state of just cranking

listened for the pump to prime and it's not doing it ?! yet the sender was replaced along with a new pump and it was fine for 5 mins idling !? and now won't start again

ready to give up lol

tips ? ... pointers ? ... anyone ?

[Smokinvs]

hmmmm its sound like could be have problem with coils or fuel filter could be old?! did ur car have backfire alot?

[jtwizzy]

fuel filter has been replaced as have the coil packs

the car back fired on the first start last night then was ok

idled for 4 / 5 mins then started to hunt and bog down

tried to keep the revs up then the car died and didn't wanna start

after that i put my head under the fuel tank whilst the missus turned the car to accessories and i didn't hear anything from the fuel pump

checked relays and swapped them with other ones ( horn etc )

still nothing

tried again after work and still nothing

[PRAVX II S]

fuel filter has been replaced as have the coil packs

the car back fired on the first start last night then was ok

idled for 4 / 5 mins then started to hunt and bog down

tried to keep the revs up then the car died and didn't wanna start

after that i put my head under the fuel tank whilst the missus turned the car to accessories and i didn't hear anything from the fuel pump

checked relays and swapped them with other ones ( horn etc )

still nothing

tried again after work and still nothing

First off mate it should be on IGN not Accessories to turn the fuel pump on.
Also check if the PCM is sending a signal out to the relay to activate the relay and fuel pump
The wire from the PCM sends a power signal with (IGN on) you can check it at the PCM or at the relay socket.
No matter if you change the relay over if there is no signal the relay will not energize

[jtwizzy]

Sorry mate i meant IGN lol

we checked if the relay socket was getting power over the weekend and it was

[Wombles]

You need 3 things to get combustion.
You have spark yea?
You have fuel?
Maybe check the sensors for the air intake?

[PRAVX II S]

Sorry mate i meant IGN lol

we checked if the relay socket was getting power over the weekend and it was

Ok then the relay energizes
Is the power getting to the fuel pump. Check with IGN on and get a test light and probe the power wire at the fuel pump.
I think its the violet wire.
Check the earth at the fuel pump as well.

[jtwizzy]

So i changed my fuel pump to original one that was in it in the first place

fuel pump primed, started and ran for half'n'hour with out skipping a beat ! ... had the engine light on the whole time but i think that was to with the thermo not being hooked up ? (was already off due to wanting to change the radiator)

took it for a gentle drive around the block and all ok !

pulled up out the front of my place, turned it off and tried to start it again and all it was doing was cranking again with no kick over

checked to hear the pump priming and it is every time

am i going crazy ?! ... im a little over it now lol

[PRAVX II S]

What is the fuel pressure on the fuel rail while cranking and with IGN on?
Are the injectors ok check for the resistance of the injectors. Probe the injectors with multi-meter leads. Disconnect the
injector terminal.
I think its meant to be between 11.8-12.8 ohms. I know this is for the vt-vy.
Also you stated that the fuel filter was changed is it put in the right way flow wise.

[hako]

I've seen this problem caused by a faulty oil pressure switch which got wet when degreasing - the internals fail which results in no power to the fuel pump. (the oil pressure switch supplies power to the pump) It can be intermittent. Easy to check by substitution.

[PRAVX II S]

I've seen this problem caused by a faulty oil pressure switch which got wet when degreasing - the internals fail which results in no power to the fuel pump. (the oil pressure switch supplies power to the pump) It can be intermittent. Easy to check by substitution.

Yes this could be the problem.
But the oil pressure switch is not the main power supply for the fuel pump.
You will find that the fuel pump relay is a change over type.
Say the fuel pump fuse blows the fuel pump will still operate via the oil pressure switch (change over relay)
So long as the oil pressure is adequate.

[hako]

Yes this could be the problem.
But the oil pressure switch is not the main power supply for the fuel pump.
You will find that the fuel pump relay is a change over type.
Say the fuel pump fuse blows the fuel pump will still operate via the oil pressure switch (change over relay)
So long as the oil pressure is adequate.

I've never fully understood this, or found anyone who can properly explain how power is switched from the FP relay if the FP fuse blows - the relay coil is on a separate fuse to the pump and will still be in circuit with the pump despite the fuse being blown.....how then does it 'change-over'?

But that aside, there have been many similar instances where the OP switch has shorted internally and caused this very problem.

[jtwizzy]

found a solution

sold it tonight

going back to a jap car as there more reliable

[karlos vs]

gutted i was hoping you would have found the problem as mine is doing pretty much the same thing! but not intermittent, just wont fire

[James39]

found a solution

sold it tonight

going back to a jap car as there more reliable

Oh well your loss, their gain