The Ultimate in LPG gas systems ??

[bpefi]

For those that have seen my posts before - you will know that I have been pushing the Blos mixer pretty hard. I fitted one around 6 months ago & I have done over 20,000 klm so I thought it right to post what I have found.

I have three vehicles, two run Airod variable mixers & the third runs a Blos - all three ran std ring mixers originally - so I am in a pretty good position to see the differences all round. I tune all vehicles by reading the oxygen sensor & driving the vehicle.

The Airod is great for most vehicles - with a VS V6 std engine it runs like it was on petrol with a std dual map LPG / Petrol memcal. (With the std Mixer & petrol only memcal it was a pig to drive with a huge loss of power.) It doesn't affect revs at all & it will rev right out as if its on petrol. Though it does not give the right draw down low for easy starting.

The Blos is fitted to a 2002 2.0L 2wd Toyota Hilux - always carrying a load - minimum of around 500kg. Its fitted with twin LPG tanks with a useable 128L. I get a consistent 1000 klm's per 128 L on LPG which is combined highway / town (not city - I don't get stuck in traffic) this equates to around $80 per 1000 klm depending on the cost of the LPG at the time. I drive pretty sedately though but keep to & exceed the speed limit at times.

I have been recently driving my Mothers Mazda 2 which is a 1.5 L auto & it costs me around $60-70 per 500 Klm - so the Hilux is pretty cheap running cost especially considering the weight I carry all the time.

A std ring mixer will not give enough draw on the LPG at low revs & is a restriction at high revs whereas the Blos gives the LPG the RIGHT draw right across the rev range without being a restriction at high revs. This makes starting much easier & drive ability of the vehicle at low revs - high engine load especially considering I run the engine on the lean side of stoichiometric.

I believe its as good as vapor injection in drive ability & fuel economy - its far cheaper than Vapor / Liquid injection & I don't have the expense of computers / injectors failing at a later date - ultimately its easily adjustable & very reliable. I have not changed the mixtures at all since original setup. Obviously its not going to help people with later model vehicles that require Vapor injection to comply - it can easily be fitted with an LPG computer system though so as to comply with most vehicles emission requirements.

Its certainly something to consider for people wanting performance though after doing research on other systems including a GRA system. The Airod as most of you know is not produced anymore & the Blos is available on Ebay.

[HamaTime™]

I remember you and I having a discussion a while back on the merits of Standard vs Airod vs Blos...but from what you have described you seem really convinced that the BLOS mixer really stands out.

So if I am correct in assuming that the BLOS mixer gives greater draw across the entire rev range, allowing it to rev faster and rev out, giving greater down low/up high draw/torque rather than fading out. Starting is easy? Driveability much better down low?

How is the fuel efficiency? Has it improved or use more since the install of the BLOS?

Given your feedback, I'm very interested in replacing my Standard IMPCO mixer ring with a BLOS one, however I can't find them on ebay, could you throw up a few links or useful websites for them? What's the average cost also?


EDIT: On the BLOS mixer, do you run the standard memcal the way it was programmed with the conversion, or do you run a different set up, i.e. Dual Map, if so, how did you do it?

[padrickz88]

I would also be interested in details of this, I was thinking about going a BLOS a while ago but wasn't sure how much power loss it had on petrol... If you dont mind me asking what is the internal diametre of the smallest part of the BLOS?

Been looking at this on the ford forums for a while, also wouldn't midn knowing everything hama just asked

[bpefi]

I remember you and I having a discussion a while back on the merits of Standard vs Airod vs Blos...but from what you have described you seem really convinced that the BLOS mixer really stands out.

So if I am correct in assuming that the BLOS mixer gives greater draw across the entire rev range, allowing it to rev faster and rev out, giving greater down low/up high draw/torque rather than fading out. Starting is easy? Driveability much better down low?

How is the fuel efficiency? Has it improved or use more since the install of the BLOS?

Given your feedback, I'm very interested in replacing my Standard IMPCO mixer ring with a BLOS one, however I can't find them on ebay, could you throw up a few links or useful websites for them? What's the average cost also?


EDIT: On the BLOS mixer, do you run the standard memcal the way it was programmed with the conversion, or do you run a different set up, i.e. Dual Map, if so, how did you do it?

Hi Mate - You cant use Impco gear with a Blos - it has to be a positive pressure complex convertor such as an Airod - The Blos gives an even draw right across the rev range - so compared to a std ring mixer yes its greater draw. I originally fitted this without the air cleaner & only ran it on petrol & tried it on & off - there was no difference in power what so ever - it works on the same principle as an SU carby (or even the Impco simple mixer is similar though it does restrict a bit because the IMPCO convertor is negative pressure & requires much greater draw than a positive system) - for those of you that remember such things.

I just checked on Ebay & there isn't anything - maybe you just have to wait for a while - I do have the guys email address so I can look for that & see how you go - its probably cheaper to do it this way as there are no Ebay fees. I will see what I can do there& I think that it was around $240 inc freight.

I think fuel economy has improved slightly - drive ability is what I am after & that means no top end restriction - it means being able to drive it just like petrol especially with low revs & high engine load such as climbing a hill & ease of starting. Its benefits are more apparent with a manual rather than an Auto though.

As for the Memcal - I use a std Holden Dual map LPG / petrol VS Memcal from a factory fitted system - It requires an extra wire to be run from the LPG changeover switch to the computer - to change maps - I bought mine from a LPG wholesaler in Brisbane & I can find out for you - just cant remember at the moment.

When I had the system fitted originally it was using a petrol start / std ring mixer / std Memcal - it was like a pig..

Apexus has details on wiring the system & using the holden petrol fuel guage

http://www.apexus.com.au/document/kits/qk102.pdf

[bpefi]

I would also be interested in details of this, I was thinking about going a BLOS a while ago but wasn't sure how much power loss it had on petrol... If you dont mind me asking what is the internal diametre of the smallest part of the BLOS?

Been looking at this on the ford forums for a while, also wouldn't midn knowing everything hama just asked

Bit hard to work that out as its not round - but take my word for it that its greater than anything else you have seen - almost twice the size of std VS ring Mixer they use one for V8's for daily drivers & work great on some web pages that I have seen - for performance on a V8 I would use two - just depends on what you want to do - I am that convinced that If your not happy with what you get - I will buy the Blos off you - the only way you wont get the same response as I did is if you dont get it setup right & its easy to setup

[bpefi]

Here is his email address I will send a message through Ebay as well (just in case he has changed his email) if one of you would send him an email

pmxpro@o2.pl

I had chatted with him about buying them & selling them here in Australia myself & here is the prices for a 6 buy & not through Ebay - which is slightly old so it might change - if a few of you got together & did a bulk deal you should be able to get them at similar prices.

I would be glad to sell you the carbs in quantity rather than sending single pieces. To be honest it's not a great deal on these carbs, so I can't offer much. At 6pcs I could make each piece AU$155, priority postage $125 and insurance $20. So one piece would cost you $180.

Good luck Marc

[bpefi]

This is his sellers id from Ebay & if you search for "lpg mixer" quite a few items come up & you can contact him through one of his items that are there - I cant send him a message through Ebay as the sale is over 6 months old.

Mr.Mixer LPG Parts Shop

[HamaTime™]

Hi Mate - You cant use Impco gear with a Blos - it has to be a positive pressure complex convertor such as an Airod - The Blos gives an even draw right across the rev range - so compared to a std ring mixer yes its greater draw. I originally fitted this without the air cleaner & only ran it on petrol & tried it on & off - there was no difference in power what so ever - it works on the same principle as an SU carby (or even the Impco simple mixer is similar though it does restrict a bit because the IMPCO convertor is negative pressure & requires much greater draw than a positive system) - for those of you that remember such things.

I just checked on Ebay & there isn't anything - maybe you just have to wait for a while - I do have the guys email address so I can look for that & see how you go - its probably cheaper to do it this way as there are no Ebay fees. I will see what I can do there& I think that it was around $240 inc freight.

I think fuel economy has improved slightly - drive ability is what I am after & that means no top end restriction - it means being able to drive it just like petrol especially with low revs & high engine load such as climbing a hill & ease of starting. Its benefits are more apparent with a manual rather than an Auto though.

As for the Memcal - I use a std Holden Dual map LPG / petrol VS Memcal from a factory fitted system - It requires an extra wire to be run from the LPG changeover switch to the computer - to change maps - I bought mine from a LPG wholesaler in Brisbane & I can find out for you - just cant remember at the moment.

When I had the system fitted originally it was using a petrol start / std ring mixer / std Memcal - it was like a pig..

Apexus has details on wiring the system & using the holden petrol fuel guage

http://www.apexus.com.au/document/kits/qk102.pdf

Ok, so if I was going to do the BLOS mixer changeover, I would need the positive pressure convertor... anything else? can you link me to an appropriate convertor/parts needed?

Cool, if you could check with the guy about stock or prices etc, that would be great.

I'd be sold on driveability, mine is a pig, it starts well, but has zero guts at all, petrol or gas.. Gas doesn't rev hard or want to get moving, so hopefully this mixer can solve a few problems.

On the memcal side of things, I'll double check with the firm that did my conversion, but I believe it's the standard memcal... the gauge is hooked up to the stock cluster one, displays the fuel currently selected.

So what is the full list of parts I would need to change from the IMPCO system?

[HamaTime™]

Also, I've heard great things about Gas Research as well, in what ways do you think the BLOS has advantages over GR?

[bpefi]

This is his sellers id from Ebay & if you search for "lpg mixer" quite a few items come up & you can contact him through one of his items that are there - I cant send him a message through Ebay as the sale is over 6 months old.

Mr.Mixer LPG Parts Shop

[bpefi]

Also, I've heard great things about Gas Research as well, in what ways do you think the BLOS has advantages over GR?

I have been looking at Gas research & its just the same as a ring mixer though it has a lot of adjustments for idle / progression ports & full power - it is restrictive as well & has all the same problems as a std ring mixer as far as I am concerned. Though to be fair it is far more advanced than a std mixer - but it requires dyno time & then things are in the hands of the bloke that tunes it unless you buy something that will read the oxy sensor output - which I suggest you do anyway - The blos is just so much easier to setup. The object is to save money & the money you would have spent on Dyno - you can use for a wide band setup.

As for parts required - once the convertor is fitted - you need to make up your air inlet somehow - I used silicone hose from Supercheap & a bit of exhaust pipe to join things (see pics) - you can fit an LPG computer stepper motor in the line from the convertor. Mate if yours is like mine was from the LPG installer - you will just be amazed at the difference if you go this way - the memcal makes a huge difference - especially on starting - between the Australian Ford forums & this one I have posted lots of info on fitting & setting them up - its a lot of time writing all of this - so I would ask that you do some work here for yourselves & I will answer stuff after that. I have posted some photos of my setup - hope it works !!!

Just be warned though that in my circumstance with my oxygen sensors I could go much leaner than what the sensors indicated & In the end I had a mechanic put his wide band oxygen sensor setup on my car & go for a drive - it came out at 15 something to one ratio which he thought was great - but my oxygen sensors just read lean all the time. I have to put another sensor in & leave it disconnected from the computer & see what the difference is. But the engine is out at the moment. (Just had it all done up with high comp pistons & a lot shaved off the heads / new timing chain etc I will let you know how this goes in the future) You can buy a wide band kit off ebay as well but they are around $500 i think - but this is the best way as you can see what its doing all the time & you know if your mixtures are right every time you drive it.

[bpefi]

Just be warned about buying a Memcal - the link I provided in an above post for Apexus - gives you the details on which computer you need to be able to run the dual map Memcal - if you dont have the right part number you will have to buy another computer with the right ones. Also Without the power applied to the terminal of the computer from the fuel changeover switch - the vehicle will start up in LPG mode - NOT petrol mode. Which had me confused at one point.

[HamaTime™]

Understood mate.

I've found this Positive Complex converter:

Positive Converter - Blue LPG Shop

Reckon that would suit?

Going into another LPG workshop tomorrow (Smithy's LPG-Automotive-Services :: Mechanical Servicing, Automotive Repairs, LPG Gas Conversions), so going to see what they think.

[bpefi]

That converter would be ok I think - but I prefer Airod as mixtures seem to always stay the same no matter what.

I will give you an indication of the power - with the Dual map Memcal & Airod variable mixer - the VS v6 motor / auto that I have, is fitted to a 93 Hilux Dual cab. ( I don't know which vehicle is heavier than the other but a full lpg tank should make up the difference) It has a 3.7 - 1 ratio diff - 215/70 R15 tyres (which drops the ratio back a bit I think compared to a std VS) I was dragging a bloke that I knew in a std VS auto sedan from the lights - I had just picked up my stock order of soft drinks from the transport depot & the ute tray was full to the sides of the tray with cartons - so that's pretty heavy.
I had a passenger & both petrol & lpg tanks full - the other guy was by himself in an empty car. The car I was dragging never left me (two runs) & the only reason he got in front of me on the last run was because the road turned into one lane & he had right of way (I was in the left lane) - we got to around 80 KPH before I backed off. On the highway I was getting 13L per hundred kilometers if I remember correctly. Around town was 15 I think - which I thought pretty good considering the diff ratio.

[bpefi]

As for the Dual Map Memcal, I bought it off Pro Gas in Brisbane - I am pretty sure that the following link gives all their details

Pro Gas (QLD) Pty Ltd - Carburettors & Fuel Pumps-Equipment & Service - East Brisbane, QLD - Yellow Pages®

[bpefi]

Just wanted to let everyone know that these fuel economy figures posted previously are with a couple of added extras -

#1 I use the Pulstar plugs - which improve fuel economy / power & drive ability.

#2 I use an air ram / scoop (PVC pipe) incorporated into my bumper bar (with a std air filter) its quite large with 6" split in half length ways & going across the front & 3" going up into the air cleaner box / it works quite well.

#3 I use 10w40 Mobil1 - on Mobil's recommendation - I used to use mineral oil 20w50 & the std spec in the owners manual is 10w30 - the difference is quite dramatic. It uses a bit of oil but I don't care as the fuel economy increase more than covers the loss & as I practice extended oil changes (anything up to 30,000K) this gives some fresh oil & additives regularly.
__________________

[padrickz88]

Ok I know this is a fairly big dig...

But I remembered a while ago that there was gas injection kits (under bonnet) available on ebay, but couldn't find them when this thread was made..

Finally found them again, A bunch of guys off the ford forums are using them and seem to be insanely satisfied and apparently perform pretty good.
Best thing is there is no restriction on petrol but would still be pretty damn awesome on gas as well (has its own ecu for you to tune) and apparently not many wires to solder (he says half a dozen in the ad)...

So it seems pretty straight forward and wouldn't take long at all

Here is the link.
######## LPG VAPOUR INJECTION CHEAP GAS EFI KIT ####### | eBay

I think I've given up on the idea of a mixer and will just do this when I can actually save some money instead of buying useless shit lol

[bpefi]

Ok I know this is a fairly big dig...

But I remembered a while ago that there was gas injection kits (under bonnet) available on ebay, but couldn't find them when this thread was made..

Finally found them again, A bunch of guys off the ford forums are using them and seem to be insanely satisfied and apparently perform pretty good.
Best thing is there is no restriction on petrol but would still be pretty damn awesome on gas as well (has its own ecu for you to tune) and apparently not many wires to solder (he says half a dozen in the ad)...

So it seems pretty straight forward and wouldn't take long at all

Here is the link.
######## LPG VAPOUR INJECTION CHEAP GAS EFI KIT ####### | eBay

I think I've given up on the idea of a mixer and will just do this when I can actually save some money instead of buying useless shit lol

The only advantage of going vapour over a Blos is that you dont have lpg in the manifold - so backfires are much less a problem- not worth it unless you can go with Liquid injection as that will increase HP as well as give you no back fires - its also complicated system & you cant play with them at all - so any repairs or adjustments have to be done by the dealer - being a mechanic myself I dont like that as it costs money & not always do they do things right - your at their mercy

[hako]

Can you confirm that you have a 2.0 litre Hilux?.....you posted: "The Blos is fitted to a 2002 2.0L 2wd Toyota Hilux - always carrying a load - minimum of around 500kg. " Do you mean 2.7L?

[bpefi]

Yes 2.0L - its a 1RZ engine - they only came out in the Workmates - not many produced

[hako]

You learn something new every day! Regards.