Need to replace Head Gaskets... opinions/advice wanted.

[PanthaVS]

Ok,

So I've already asked this:
dbl-row-timing-chain-balance-gears

And my reasoning behind that was, I need to replace my head gaskets... (slow water leak from outter water jacket to outside of block) ... currently I'm topping up my overflow bottle once a week, So i wanna fix this soon... the sooner the better.

I'm also going to replace the timing chain.

Thing is... If I'm going to all the trouble of removing the heads, and timing cover, my questions are:
(Oh, and to do this, i will be removing the radiator and i can drop the AC Condensor for greater access)

1. Is it worth updating/replacing anything else while it's all in pieces? i.e A better cam, rockers, lifters, springs etc?
(if i get a cam, I would wanna definately go DBL row timing chain??)

2. What gasket kit should i get, considering i DID replace the intake gaskets about 6 - 12 months ago.

Oh, I have a set of Pacies that are ready to go on, so I'll do that while the heads are off, so i can drop them down into the engine bay, instead of coming up and having to remove steering components, etc.

Note: All labour I will do myself, I would like to keep the budget low... but Am willing to spend the money if it's good "Bang for your buck" if that gives any help.

Cheers!

[Chrispy]

1. Is it worth updating/replacing anything else while it's all in pieces? i.e A better cam, rockers, lifters, springs etc?
(if i get a cam, I would wanna definately go DBL row timing chain??)

So you're definately putting a double row chain on? Depends how much money you're willing to spend. Crow cams + tunes are over $700 for the kit, or you could get a regrind cam and a retuned memcal.
I'm unsure if VS' are the same as VR's but on a VR it is a bitch to get the timing chain cover off. You have to drop the K frame to be able to get to all the sump bolts, but if you wanna go to all the trouble I'd replace sump gaskets, timing cover gasket, front crank seal and a new crank angle sensor while you're there.

While you've got the heads off you could get them crack tested, check the valves, check for any bent pushrods, new valve stem seals aswell. Generally if you change a camshaft you'll need to change the lifters aswell, the cam lobes will not wear evenly if you don't.

What gasket kit should i get, considering i DID replace the intake gaskets about 6 - 12 months ago.

Oh, I have a set of Pacies that are ready to go on, so I'll do that while the heads are off, so i can drop them down into the engine bay, instead of coming up and having to remove steering components, etc.

No idea about gaskets to be honest, i think ACL do a good race series gaskets but I wouldn't be buying off the shelf super cheap auto crap if I was you. Pretty sure you'll still need to drop the steering rack to be able to get the extractors.

Hope i helped.

[PanthaVS]

So you're definately putting a double row chain on? Depends how much money you're willing to spend. Crow cams + tunes are over $700 for the kit, or you could get a regrind cam and a retuned memcal.

Definately if i put an aftermarket cam in. From what i've read, with the balance shaft disabled, an aftermarket cam will hide/get rid off any unwanted harmonics at that 1400-1700rpm. Correct me if I'm wrong??

I'm unsure if VS' are the same as VR's but on a VR it is a bitch to get the timing chain cover off.

Nup. Easy on the ecotecs. you dont even have to take the water pump off the timing cover. After you remove the marmonic balancer (Using a home made tool as depicted in the manual and a air rattlegun) the hardest bolts to get to are the 3 sump-to-timing cover bolts at the bottom, but nothing too hard.

You have to drop the K frame to be able to get to all the sump bolts, but if you wanna go to all the trouble I'd replace sump gaskets, timing cover gasket, front crank seal and a new crank angle sensor while you're there.

Good point... and i can fish out the timing chain dampener if its fallen off the front of the block and gone down into the sump!

While you've got the heads off you could get them crack tested, check the valves, check for any bent pushrods, new valve stem seals aswell. Generally if you change a camshaft you'll need to change the lifters aswell, the cam lobes will not wear evenly if you don't.

ahh yes... Noted!

No idea about gaskets to be honest, i think ACL do a good race series gaskets but I wouldn't be buying off the shelf super cheap auto crap if I was you.

Yeah, I'm thinking that.. but just have to figure out which "kit" to get... depending on what i pull apart...

Pretty sure you'll still need to drop the steering rack to be able to get the extractors.

Well... no harm in trying if the heads are off?? I'll be taking LOTS of photos when i do all this, as it covers a lot of jobs that get asked about.

[Chrispy]

Definately if i put an aftermarket cam in. From what i've read, with the balance shaft disabled, an aftermarket cam will hide/get rid off any unwanted harmonics at that 1400-1700rpm. Correct me if I'm wrong??

I've read heaps of different opinions on that subject, some people have done it and had no worries at all, and others have had a worse idle but if you do go with a lumpier cam you won't even notice. Balance shafts make a terrible noise when a bearings are gone but if you remove the gear = no noise , same with with timing chain tensioners when they start to lose tension they make a nice rattling noise.

Good point... and i can fish out the timing chain dampener if its fallen off the front of the block and gone down into the sump!

Worse thing that can happen is you strip a bolt, but you should be right.

Well... no harm in trying if the heads are off?? I'll be taking LOTS of photos when i do all this, as it covers a lot of jobs that get asked about.

I'm kinda in the same boat as you, going to chuck a low km engine/tranny in my car at the end of year. Will be doing a full gasket set, new cam, lifters all that fun stuff while I have the new motor out of the car. Should be good fun haha

[PanthaVS]

So the other big question is... What Cam would suit? (Bring on the can-o-worms)

Driving habits: lots of Freeway driving at cruise speed
Driving style: Like to put the foot into it every now and again but generally a calm driver.
Current engine mods: CAI
Engine mods that WILL be done with a cam install: Extractors, new hyd roller lifters, dbl row chain, anything else necessary
Desirable outcome: greater "umph" from idle to peak power whilst still retaining good (or better if possible?) economy when cruising on the freeway.
Tolerable effects: lumpy idle
Unwanted mods: Do not want to upgrade to a hi-stall convertor.

Like I said... Bring on the can-o-worms!

[hako]

You say "slow water leak from outter water jacket to outside of block"...to me that indicates the head is warped or the block has corroded. Gaskets should not leak there unless (like Falcons with alloy heads) the mating surfaces somehow distort or corrode.
Gaskets will rarely fail....if they do it will be for a reason. If you need to get the head skimmed, you will need to do both heads.

[PanthaVS]

You say "slow water leak from outter water jacket to outside of block"...to me that indicates the head is warped or the block has corroded. Gaskets should not leak there unless (like Falcons with alloy heads) the mating surfaces somehow distort or corrode.
Gaskets will rarely fail....if they do it will be for a reason. If you need to get the head skimmed, you will need to do both heads.

Good point... I know a place in melbourne that will machine/skim the heads for $100 a head. Question is... at $200... am i better sourcing a reco'd head that has all new gear in it too?

That is... If the heads are warped... a Glass pane and wd40 shall tell in time! :P