LSD rear end into VS.

[Drawnnite]

so quick question (again i know... =P)

so i now have a LSD rear end from a Vn V8 (all recoed everything) (its rotor to rotor, with all trailing and control arms, everything =P)
we put it next to the one i current have the vs, and it all looked to match up correctly.

however 2 things.

if i buy a full set of brakes rotors will it fit the same on a Vs as a Vn as isnt the hubs different? (or is that only the fronts)
and are the brake lines the same? so could they just be matched up?

thanks.

[Brett_jjj]

I put a limited slip VN diff in my VS a while back when a bearing went in my original one. (live axle). It fitted up fine, but didnt look right, it looked narrower and was sitting inside the guards further, It stuffed up how the car handled too. I looked at the vehicle specs from the VN and the VS and found that when the VR was released, holden widened the track width slightly, so the VN-VP diff is slightly narrower than the VR- VS diff. Heres the measurments,
VN front track =1451mm.
VN rear track =1478 mm.
VS front track =1491mm.
VS rear track =1491 mm.
When I removed the diff again and sat the VN and VS diffs side by side, they both looked exactly the same, it was hard to even notice the small difference in width when they were sitting side by side, but that small difference was enough to make a considerable difference to how it looked and handled when it was fitted up to the car.

[Drawnnite]

thanks for that.
did it happen to cause any rubbing when it was put in? (eg tyres on inner guards?)
and how did it change the handling?

so you would suggest having the old diff centre taken out and having the new one put in?
and if so does anyone know of a place that can do this?
or would a regular mechanic be able to get this correct?

[Brett_jjj]

Firstly measure the width of both the diffs just to confirm that the diffs you have are different widths, (if they are the same width,then obviously its just a straight swapover of the whole diffs), but if they are different widths, you will need to get the diff centre swapped over. Most mechanical workshops will be able to do this, just do some calling around first to get the best prices. With the handling, it made the car sway a lot more than normal in the rear end through corners, and just generally made it feel very unstable. It also rubbed on the inside guards when going up driveways etc like when one side was higher than the other.This was with normal 15 inch chaser rims fitted with standard size 205/65 15 tyres.

[Drawnnite]

thanks for that.
you've been a great help with that info

ill have to wait until the old man gets home them to measure as i need to take it out the back of the ute =P
and then have him help me measure the current width.

[Brett_jjj]

Mate, Im sorry, I didnt even take any notice that it was a ute you were talking about, and I was talking about sedans.The utes might have a completely different setup to the sedans, Im not sure so I cant say one way or the other. Im sure someone here will be able to tell you if theres any differrences between VN and VS ute diffs.

[Drawnnite]

Mate, Im sorry, I didnt even take any notice that it was a ute you were talking about, and I was talking about sedans.The utes might have a completely different setup to the sedans, Im not sure so I cant say one way or the other. Im sure someone here will be able to tell you if theres any differrences between VN and VS ute diffs.

it was originally out of a VN v8 wagon =P
but ill take your advice and measure it.

we did put them close to each other to compare any differences and they looked exactly the same.

thanks for all your help though =P

Edit: just reading it could be able 9mm difference.
ill still check but could this make a huge difference in handling?
or because its so small it wouldnt matter? (4.5mm on each side)

[Brett_jjj]

The one I put in my sedan was around 1 cm narrower (around 5 mm either side) and it effected it badly. Im sure Ive read somewhere before that ute and wagon diffs are the same,but Im not 100% sure.

[GTP 85]

I wouldnt do it mate. Reason being... If you have rims on your ute and its lowered, id guarantee it rubs the wheels on the inner guard (through driveways) already. So fitting an earlier and slightly narrower diff will make it worse.

I reckon you should put the diff in the tray, take it to a diff shop, and get them to pull the LSD out and reshim it while they are at it. Then fit it into your diff. Being from a VN it will probably be a pretty tired LSD

[Jonah 101]

OR take the easy way out and put some 5mm spacers on each side, or is that illegal in aussie?

EDIT: I agree though, swap it over and have it re-shimmed etc

[Drawnnite]

I wouldnt do it mate. Reason being... If you have rims on your ute and its lowered, id guarantee it rubs the wheels on the inner guard (through driveways) already. So fitting an earlier and slightly narrower diff will make it worse.

I reckon you should put the diff in the tray, take it to a diff shop, and get them to pull the LSD out and reshim it while they are at it. Then fit it into your diff. Being from a VN it will probably be a pretty tired LSD

firstly its far from lowered =P


but ill get it changed over to current axle/diff housing if it is narrower.
also it already has been recoed before i bought it off the guy.
it has next to no play. (he showed me a few other diffs that had been worn out, and showed all the play they had)
and dont worry we tested it to show there was no spool =P

but thanks for the advice. will definately come in handy.
if it is shorter (which i shall measure it soon) it will get changed over depending on the pricing.

EDIT:
just upon some reading the VS Ute Rear Track is 1478
and the VN Wagon Rear Track is also 1478.
shall have to confirm this myself i guess =P

[Drawnnite]

did some measurements.
turns out it is the exact same in sizing.
so in theory it should be a straight swap
and no i wouldnt put spacers if it was difference sizing, the centre would be swapped.

dont worry ill take all your advice on board on having it changing over.
so would the process of reconditioning be shimming and having it all fixed up to the best possible standard?
in which case would it even be worthwhile to have everything done again if its only just been done? (this i dont understand)

i guess the next step is talking to a mechanic about doing this for me.
see if they would touch this.
and if thats a yes all bushings shall be changed before it gets put in.

and i know it sounds like im not following some good advice. which normally i would.
but if its the exact same in dimensions, and has just been reconditioned (rebuilt?) i do not see why it wouldnt be a straight swap?
or is what im thinking completely stupid/illogical and i should just go jump off a cliff? =P

i mean if someone can explain to me exactly why i should go get is all reshimmed ill gladly go do it.
and dont worry it will have brand new diff oil in there.



oh and some extra info.
the VR/S sedan rear track is wider then the utes and wagons.

[GTP 85]

Woah thats jacked up!

Well there ya go, i didnt know they were the same. Just an asumption as the sedans were definitely different.

If you have measured them up and you're sure the track is the same then, by all means, do the swap!

Also if you're happy that the LSD isnt too worn and weak, then dont worry about shimming it. I only suggested that as the diff is out of the car and its easy to pop the LSD out and get "tightened" it up a bit more, so that it goes in fresh and lasts a long time. The last thing you want to do it throw the LSD in and soon find out that its worn.

...oh and just a last bit of advice... Dont always believe someone who says "its been rebuilt". I went to go buy a "recently rebuilt" LSD the other day. I checked it over, i suspected it was open wheel, so got him to open the rear cover. LOL... w@nker tried to sell me a single wheeler! after showing him how to identify them, he was still trying to convince me it was rebuilt LSD!!!

[Drawnnite]

Woah thats jacked up!

Well there ya go, i didnt know they were the same. Just an asumption as the sedans were definitely different.

If you have measured them up and you're sure the track is the same then, by all means, do the swap!

Also if you're happy that the LSD isnt too worn and weak, then dont worry about shimming it. I only suggested that as the diff is out of the car and its easy to pop the LSD out and get "tightened" it up a bit more, so that it goes in fresh and lasts a long time. The last thing you want to do it throw the LSD in and soon find out that its worn.

...oh and just a last bit of advice... Dont always believe someone who says "its been rebuilt". I went to go buy a "recently rebuilt" LSD the other day. I checked it over, i suspected it was open wheel, so got him to open the rear cover. LOL... w@nker tried to sell me a single wheeler! after showing him how to identify them, he was still trying to convince me it was rebuilt LSD!!!

no worries and thanks for the advice =P

as i was saying before we had a good look over it and did some comparisons against another diff he had there.
this one had about 2mm of play where the tailshaft goes.
and when that front part was spun both wheels went the same way. and no it wasnt a spool! we tested that out aswell =P

but yeah i know what you mean about not always believing someone.
will just have to see how it goes. (and i dont mean it will be used for burnouts...)

but yeah thanks again. all this advice has definately helped
ill have to let you guys know how it goes.
and see if a mechanic will do it. (with a whole other bunch of stuff i need putting in)
and if so it will mean a good clean and rebushing (currently a slightly squeeky rear end)

[Drawnnite]

so doing a little bit of searching come across some info.
the bumpstops?

where exactly are they so i can find out what they look like?

and i read the wagon and ute ones are different.
can anyone explain to me how this would effect the car?
i mean i doubt this car would reach them but still.... =P
as isnt there a plate on top of the ute diff? or have i read some bad info?
also any pics to help would be amazing. otherwise its getting under the car for me =P

and if they are majorly different i guess it may mean finding out about just getting the centre changed.

[Jonnii]

The bumpstops are directly above the axel's (i think they are called load dampeners in utes coz they are huge)and there should be like a plate looking thing welded to the axel housing so when the suspension is underload the bumpstop hits the plate. Then there is the brake bias thingy attached to the rear diff (sorry i cant remember what it is called) but it affects how heavily the brakes are applied when the rear is loaded up.

[Drawnnite]

thanks for that.
ill have a look at the next time i can get under the car easily (atleast it doesnt have to be jacked up =P)
good to know where they are now

EDIT:
had a good look.
has like 150-200mm clearance from diff to bumpstop (which i only have one of?)
both diffs have a sort of plate part (flat part on diff) at the front. so they are both the same.

so unless i have looked at wrong spot it should be the exact same.
so am i right by saying there is 1 bumpstop above the diff on the top where the tub is (obviously underneath car though)
or are there some other spots and i looked in some wierd/wrong spot?

also from the panhard rod i have some shackle and chain to some army thing, anyone know what the hell that is?
or is it some special country pack specialty?

[Drawnnite]

so anyway 1 more question and this should be it before i go get everything for it.

ok i feel stupid asking this but ill go ahead anyway.

ok so the whole diff set up if the exact same vn to vs live axle.
but are the brakes the same? (i would assume so but i dont want to take chances)

ive read all the pads are the same which is good.
but if i buy rotors would i need VN V8 ones for the rears and then VS ones for the fronts?

thanks in advance.
and hopefully this is the last question

[GTP 85]

Jonnii sort of explained what that shackle on the panhard bar is....

The brakes i believe are same from memory..... But either way, its easy to swap over your existing rotors and pads.

[Drawnnite]

Jonnii sort of explained what that shackle on the panhard bar is....

The brakes i believe are same from memory..... But either way, its easy to swap over your existing rotors and pads.

thanks for the help.

yeah im thinking of going all brand new rotors and pads. so hopefully i can get a set of 4, instead of having to remember 2 sets of things =P
also tempted on cleaning up the calipers. just to make it look neater all up.

by the looks in the ac delco product guide they are the same.
might have to confirm it when i go to quote some bush prices.

[Drawnnite]

yeah same size brakes on the VS and VN. which is good.
so should be able to clean it up well.

ok so when i had the wheel off (measuring rotors) i found those bump stops you were talking about, and the plate to match.
ok so on the VN diff is doesnt have said plates. now is it possible to attach them by any chance? or would this be risky? (even if welding?)
and would it matter if i didnt have those plates? only reason i ask this part is because if i had of been bothered to measure it would be like 150mm+ travel between the plate and the diff (was more when wheel off, so just a slight estimate on amount) and i doubt the 2 will ever hit, and if they do the rubber bump stops would still stop the metal on metal anyway?

so hopefully ill be all set after this last question is asked.
if it is good itll mean ordering bushes *woohoo* and starting to rebuild.
oh and i found out it was next to nothing more (like $20) to just get new control arms instead of pressing out bearings, which could be awesome =P

Thanks in Advance

[GTP 85]

u could leave it without the flat metal plate and it wont affect the way the bump stop works.

The utes have the big upside down rubber cone for bumpstops, correct? The bumpstop will still make contact with the diff housing in the right spot.

If you want to be a perfectionist, just get some flat plates of steel welded on.

IMO, it wont make much difference.. you car may not ever hit the bumpstop anyway being that tall haha

[Drawnnite]

u could leave it without the flat metal plate and it wont affect the way the bump stop works.

The utes have the big upside down rubber cone for bumpstops, correct? The bumpstop will still make contact with the diff housing in the right spot.

If you want to be a perfectionist, just get some flat plates of steel welded on.

IMO, it wont make much difference.. you car may not ever hit the bumpstop anyway being that tall haha

ok thanks for that and clearing it all up =P
yeah the bumpstops are the cone shaped thing which looks like one of those dog toys called a KONG =P

yeah i doubt it will ever hit either.
although it appears it may have hit it once or twice =P
ok so with all that answered it shall be off to see what a mechanic says.
ironically ill be riding a pushbike... =P

thanks again

[Drawnnite]

shop said they would put it in (so ill just time it with the next service)
which will have the front end sorted out (all new bits and pieces)

so it shall mean getting all the new bushes and trailing arms and everything cleaned up ready for a swapover. yay! =P
but they said use the old brakes off the VS. even though they have a bit of dirt on them where the studs are (which in my mind looks a lil dirty) they said they are all good.

now to get this ball rolling and get it in.

so thanks again for all your help everyone =P

and hopefully someone will one day search and find this for when they do a similar swap.