VR Calais with t5 conversion wont start

[C4L4IS]

hey guys, just converted the calais to manual, put the manual ecu and harness and everything in but it wont fire, the starter motor solenoid doesnt even click and i know it works...
all the plugs are in and everything but it just does nothing when i turn the key
the computer lights up fine the key turns fine stereo even works but theres just nothing from the starter.
any help or ideas? would be much appreciated

[FstStig]

Is it the Manual starter motor or still the auto one?

[C4L4IS]

tried both. they look exactly the same?
just went through the wiring and it seems to be around the relay box cause we can fire the starter by touching the starter plug with a wire from the positive battery terminal
but now the horn doesnt work either...

[Jxw]

didn't forget to bypass the p/n safety switch wires from the old auto shifter?

[FstStig]

didn't forget to bypass the p/n safety switch wires from the old auto shifter?

He is using the Manual wiring harness. Bypassing the safety switch is only required when using the auto wiring harness.

[GTP 85]

Auto and manual starters arent the same?

[C4L4IS]

how are they not the same? the unit is exactly the same, and all they are is a motor with a solenoid which when sent power, drives the flywheel gear?
checked the diagnostics and it came up with code 33 Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP) high voltage ?

[Jxw]

He is using the Manual wiring harness. Bypassing the safety switch is only required when using the auto wiring harness.

it isn't part of the engine loom it's part the body wiring, where the reverse switch wires that you've had to extend there should be another 2 unused pins in that plug.
grey and a grey/blue wire, are these joined?



map fault won't stop it from turning over.

[FstStig]

it isn't part of the engine loom it's part the body wiring, where the reverse switch wires that you've had to extend there should be another 2 unused pins in that plug.
grey and a grey/blue wire, are these joined?



map fault won't stop it from turning over.

Here is the guide if you are wanting to keep the AUTO Wiring harness and Computer
Modifying Gearbox Loom. to keep auto computer. (VR only)
On the manual gearbox there are two connectors One For the reverse lights and the other for the speed sensor.

Connected to the auto shifter will be a white plug with four wires connected to it the grey and grey/black wires are for the neutral safety switch. they need to be shorted together to allow the car to start.
The other two wires on this connector are pink and green, they are the wires for the reverse lights test this yourself by touching them together and looking at the reverse lights.
To get the reverse lights working you will need some more wire to extend them to the gearbox. when you have enough length crimp a blade connector on each wire *Note they do not have to go onto the gearbox in a specific order (i had a spare loom sitting in the shed so i used the same colours to keep it factory looking.)
To get the speed sensor working you will Need 3 things.
Positive
Negative
Signal Wire to the dash.
The signal wire is the Purple/White Cable this has to be extended over to just above the ecu. where you will also find a purple/white wire on a plug leading from the computer up into the dash. this is the wire you need to cut and connect your extended wire.
For the Positive and Ground i used My spare Cigarette lighter Wiring but you could also use the wiring for the light around the auto shifter surround.
Then drill a hole through your gearshift plate and put a grommet in and run the wires through to the connectors.( it is recommended you do this while the car is still up in the air.)

No MAP fault wont stop it from turning over, it will only stop it from firing... Fix the fault that you know is there first.

[FstStig]

To the OP, Read this guide and you will find there IS a difference between the Auto and Manual Starter motors

The complete Vn-Vr Manual Conversion Guide.

[Jxw]

have a look at a factory manual vr near the shifter under the console, where the factory reverse wires through the trans tunnel there is a plug, this is what i'm referring to.
in an auto it also goes to the inhibitor switch and has 4 wires going to the switch.
in a manual the plug has a wire loop joining 2 pins and 2 wires going off to the reverse switch, comes like this from the factory, without the wire loop you will have no starter.
It is not part of the engine/ecu loom at all.

[FstStig]

have a look at a factory manual vr near the shifter under the console, where the factory reverse wires through the trans tunnel there is a plug, this is what i'm referring to.
in an auto it also goes to the inhibitor switch and has 4 wires going to the switch.
in a manual the plug has a wire loop joining 2 pins and 2 wires going off to the reverse switch, comes like this from the factory, without the wire loop you will have no starter.
It is not part of the engine/ecu loom at all.

If I ever feel the need to do so I will, but for now I would rather focus on the OP's problem.

[Jxw]

If I ever feel the need to do so I will, but for now I would rather focus on the OP's problem.

and that is why i initially asked if the OP had done the mod, if he hasn't it's a high possibility that it is the cause before you piped up saying it isn't needed.

[LS1 James]

how are they not the same? the unit is exactly the same, and all they are is a motor with a solenoid which when sent power, drives the flywheel gear?
checked the diagnostics and it came up with code 33 Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP) high voltage ?

Auto and Manual starters are most definately not the same.

[UW1SH]

Auto and Manual starters are most definately not the same.

Agreed and also you will need to put a manual starter in firstly then bridge the auto terminals at the shifter.. then you should be alryt to go

[James39]

To the OP, Read this guide and you will find there IS a difference between the Auto and Manual Starter motors

The complete Vn-Vr Manual Conversion Guide.

I have a starter motor that was meant for a manual, but is working on my Auto. It is a 10 teeth one....
There is a gap where there should not be one and does not have the nose cone that my original auto had, I know there is 9 teeth and a 10 teeth types.

[wamboin23]

late VP's and some early auto VR's used a manual starter motor. so good chance they are the same. the starter won't physically fit in and bolt up properly if you try and fit an 'auto' starter to a manual.

people need to stop responding if they don't know whats going on.

[C4L4IS]

thanks for the replies guys
my Calais is a 93 model, and the starter motors when put beside each other are the exact same, to the teeth.
I am able to start and run my car by unplugging the purple wire near the relay box and extend another wire from the pin to the positive terminal..

I have not bridged any wires or anything to my gearbox, there was no inhibitor switch or anything in the cockpit or on my manual loom that was not connected to anything?
I feel stupid but if I am wrong, would you draw a rough diagram to explain this to me?
I could upload some photos if need be to explain

[Jxw]

when you removed the auto shifter, you had to unplug it right? from inside the car
join the Grey & Grey/Bl wires together

the plug that used to connect to the inhibitor switch in the pic below


VS Commodore manual/auto conversion wiring step by step instruction.

[C4L4IS]

heck yes got it started and it's running beaut! sounds louder, crackles heaps on the decel, and I only paid $200 for all my parts haha
ended up being the inhibitor switch, and btw the starter motor IS exactly the same. possibly cause it's an early model or something..dunno
thanks for all the help guys! might post pics up in another thread when I put my 19's back on it after the camber kit.

[Bearman-VR]

I'll tell you know that there is actually a very large difference between manual and auto starter motors

The 'STANDARD' auto one has a big bearing support snout on it, which fits fine around the auto gearbox bell housing, however will foul on the T5 bell housing every time. I know this because I have done this

The manual one in comparison does not have this snout so it can fit. This starter motor also does bolt up to the auto's, as there is still nothing to foul on, and some do prefer to use this as it has a higher torque output

So there is a difference, the auto starter motor can only be used on auto's, whereas the manual starter can fit both applications. If you were lucky to have the manual style starter motor from the beginning then that's awesome!!

Glad you got your Calais going too the manual conversion is the best mod you can do, my VR Berlina Wagon loves it

[C4L4IS]

well I must have the manual one because the starter I got with the conversion kit was exactly the same aha
yeah it seems to love the t5 but the engine is struggling under acceleration, and it backfires as well. I'm thinking misfires? I'll change the coil pack and see how I go cause I changed the leads already

[UW1SH]

well I must have the manual one because the starter I got with the conversion kit was exactly the same aha
yeah it seems to love the t5 but the engine is struggling under acceleration, and it backfires as well. I'm thinking misfires? I'll change the coil pack and see how I go cause I changed the leads already

Lol almost guaranteed you will never go back to auto now hahaha

[Jxw]

Lol almost guaranteed you will never go back to auto now hahaha

till you get older n lazy and get sick of changing gears all the time :P

[C4L4IS]

my manual will go when my manhood does