VR 5L wont start.... PLEASE HELP

[LMP420]

hi, could someone please help me out, the car is a VR berlina 5L and isnt starting, i got the codes of of the computer and it came out with Code 46 - No Refference Signals while cranking, i tried calling holden, repco, auto pro, and the wreckers to price a new crank angle sensor but not 1 of them had that part in stock and holden told me they stopped carrying them in 2002, and said that it was a bosch item. so i called repco and they called bosch for me and they had no listing of the part either...

after having a search on here there are a few similar problems with vr's not starting and ppl keep mentions the DFI module??? does anyone think this may be the problem, if so where is the DFI module located and how do i replace/check the terminals...

also all the posts i found with this similar problem, the cars with the problem all seemed to be v6, and no v8.. could this be another problem perhaps..


anyhelp would be much appreciated..

reagrds
J

[Boonz]

the dfi module is the ugly grey metal box on your right hand strut tower....

[LMP420]

thanks for the quick reply boona, well after just goin out to clean the dfi connectors, i disconnected the battery and reset the computer, and now the only code i am getting back 12, but the car still wont start??

[jonh_vs]

Go back to basics - Check for fuel, check for spark and then go down either of those legs. If you have both, check computer and its connections - they can get old and widen up and give variable results - but I would think that you should be getting some codes through not just a code 12

[Demons1964]

Not surprised they couldn't find a crank angle sensor for the V8, they don't exist!! The V8 and V6 operate completely differently. The V8 uses a Hall effect sensor (the V8 version of the CAS) to talk to the ECM which fires the ignition module and onto the coil.

Suggest you follow john_vs's advice to find where the problem lies.

[LMP420]

OK... so i have checked for spark and fuel, i diconnected the fuel line in the engine bay and when the ignition is turned on fuel comes out... also cranked the engine with a lead off and the was a strong spark... any ideas where to go from here??

plz help....

[vt1538]

You will need to see if the injectors are getting a pulse from the computer.The easy way to do this is to disconnect the plug from an injector & fit a noid light in its place. Then crank the engine & see if the light flashes.
Also check that the acc isnt open as in clear flood mode the ecm wont allow fuel to be injected.Could also be a faulty throttle position sensor.
One other problem is if there is no reference signal the computer wont know when to pulse the injector.

[LMP420]

thanks vt for your reply, as i mentioned in an earlier post, when it wouldnt start at 1st i checked the codes and it spat out 46-No Refference Signals while cranking... which i guess could explain the problem, but after i reset the computer no code was given apart from 12...

so with code 46... does that mean i need to get a new hall effect sensor??

[LMP420]

Also... VT.. what do u mean by checking to see if the acc is open??

thanks heaps for ya help

[vt1538]

If the Acc is open I mean is the throttle stuck open which will put the car into clear flood mode.
I am not too sure about the location of the hall effect sensor, I will find out today & post back.

[LMP420]

bumpy bumpy

[BlackVXGTS]

The Hall Effect sensor is incorporated in the distributor. There are a number of reasons for getting a DTC46 including a failure of the Hall Effect sensor. If I were you I'd be replacing the ignition module first as it is the easiest to replace and changeover items are not too expensive at around $80. Attached is a diagram of the ignition components:

[LMP420]

thanks BlackVX for that, i'l head to the wreckers 2moro and grab 1, touch wood that works.. ill keep you posted...

thanks for the help!

[LMP420]

ok so ive checked the ignition module and its getting strong spark, fuel pump in pumping fuel, so where to from here??

any sugestions?? i think the mechanic!

[vt1538]

There will be a RPM signal wire that goes from the coil to the ecm. Check that this is not an open circuit.Not sure on the color.
The hall effect device must be working to trigger the coil to spark.

[jonh_vs]

Hi LMP420. Reading your post it sounds like you and I have similar problems. See my post on the VS Caprice Hard Start Intermittent Problem. My car had two starting problems. It looks that I have just fixed one of them (to do with the temp sensor) but the cold start problem is still with me. This problem does not generate any codes in the computer. I have been told by the "ëxperts" at Holden that the V8 CAS or Hall Effect sensor in the distributor does two things. The first, it provides signal to spark the plugs, the second it provides signal to pulse the injectors. If either signal fails the engine won't start. I am not sure that this is the cause of my problem because leaving my ignition on, my engine will eventually start, but just before that, first I hear the fuel pump prime the rail. Is this similar to your problem - does your engine eventually start? or is it dead?

[LMP420]

hey john, unfortunaltey my engine is completly dead, doesnt start at all, got it towed to the mechanic yesterday, so lets hope the problem isnt anything major.. i will keep you posted with whats happening and lets hope that helps the problems u are having.

[LMP420]

well well, got it back from the mechanics the sarvo an it seemed to be the coil, took them a while to find the problem also, it was getting spark but apparent;y it wasnt strong enough.. so its got a new coil in now and she seems to be runnin fine..
thanks every1 for all their help

[jonh_vs]

Well, what d'ýa know! A good result considering the possibles it could have been. Let's hope that this is the finish of it. Keep us posted if the gremlin pops it's head up again.

[51RVS]

I've just had the same symptoms, code # 46, car not starting, good spark, fuel running in the rails etc (in VS V8 Statesman) and it turned out to be the hall-effect sensor in the distributor. Second hand dizzy went in yesterday and fired first time.....sweet. Turns out the computer gave an accurate indication of where the fault was...