HELP - Car Wont Start

[fr3dd0]

My ride was stolen by a drunk flatmate (who, needless to say, is no longer my flatmate) who drove it till it was out of petrol.

When I tried to start it after putting about $20 worth of gas into it it wouldn't turn over. All I got was that familiar fast clicking sound of a dead battery.

Tried to jumpstart it, the clicking sound was gone but the starter motor would only cough for a split second and then nothing. I assumed that the battery was completely toast (I have no idea how long this girl spent trying to start the car after it was empty) so I bought a brand new battery.

Put the new battery in and now it still does the same thing as when I tried to jumpstart it. The starter motor will cough just once for a brief split second and then nothing.

I've been told that she may have burned up the starter motor, or siezed the engine. I was told by somebody that was in the car with her that she wasnt thrashing it and didnt hit anything. So I think/hope that the engine isnt siezed.

I've already wasted $100 on a battery I probably didnt need so I want to be careful about what I do next. I was told to try tapping the starter motor with a hammer while somebody trys to start the car but I cant find the starter motor (bit of a car n00b).

What do you guys think? Should I get a reconditioned starter motor and take it from there or is there some way I can troubleshoot this without spending money on parts I dont need. I read somewhere in these forums that you should be able to turn the engine manually to see if it is seized by using a socket the front of the harmonic balancer bolt or somthing like that, but I have no idea where to start.

Please help. I really need my car for my business.

Please bare in mind that whatever I do to get it going has to be done on the side of the road where the car is.

[sircruisealotVS]

damn, thats messed up...id kill someone for taking my car.
i doubt it would be seized, takes alot of punishment to get that to happen... your might be on the right track with thinkin its the starter motor, although if its gone, its gone and it wouldnt do anything at all...not even the small cough and plutter you said it did.
id have a real good look at all connections from coil pack to spark, go over all the fuses and failing that put the key to accessories and listen for that hum of the fuel pump...it could be there isnt enough fuel in the lines and fuel rails to successfully crank over, leaving it on accessories for a while would repressurise the lines again after bein run dry.

[fr3dd0]

cheers for the quick reply. Just went and checked that fuel pump thing you mentioned. When i turn the key i cant hear the feul pump at all, I even had a guy with his ear next to the petrol tank and he couldnt hear anything. Even so, I left the car on accessories for about 2 or 3 mins then tried to start it, no go.

I tried swapping relays and checking fuses earlier today and everything seems fine there.

There is about $10 worth of petrol in it, is that enough? Maybe the fuel pump is blocked with crud from the petrol tank?

[sircruisealotVS]

hmm, strange...i mean the fuel pumps on the vs's are pretty quiet (compared to say vn's) but you still should just be able to hear it working.
i dont know what to recommend next...
is the car on resonably flat ground?..if you can get to the fuel filter you could check whether there is fuel pressure by undo-ing one of the connections to it (if there's pressure it will squirt a bit of fuel out).
other than that...try asking that chick wtf she did to it? she might have tryed to do something when it stopped from runnin out of fuel.

[maginoodle]

I agree the fuel pumps are quite but you should be able to hear it when you put the key to the On position.
You can turn the harmonic balencer with a socket to check for a seized engine.
The starter is on the passengers side underneath the exhaust manifold. You should check your battery leads as this could be causin your problem. Check they are tight on both ends. If every thing is right you then will probably have to take the starter off and test it.Let me know if you want to know how to test it.
Hope this helps

[kopper69]

I would be replacing the fuel filter too. If the car was run empty there is probably crap from the bottom of the tank sucked in. If you cant hear the fuel pump i would start by replacing that. Make sure you know what to listen for though. If the thing was sucked dry but the pump kept getting ordered to pump it probably put a bit of stress on her. Bit of a bastard to replace. Starter motor sounds a bit sick too. Checked for error codes?

[fr3dd0]

Had a mate look at it quickly today. He works for a holden dealer as a mechanic. He turned the key a few times to hear the sound that the starter was making and smoke started to come off the battery terminals (brand new battery), The terminals were extremely hot. He has concluded that something is shorting out but without his tools and workshop he cant tell what it is.

I'm still dubious about the starter motor though. As soon as he heard the sound he said "thats not a fuel pump problem, the starter should still wind over if the fuel pump is stuffed"

Although the fact remains that I still cant hear the fuel pump at all.

Is it possible for a stuffed starter motor to short out the battery, causing it to heat up the terminals?

[fr3dd0]

havnt checked for error codes yet, will try that tonite.

I'm thinking about just joining the NRMA. You rekon they could get it started without charging me thousands of dollars?

[maginoodle]

Stuffed starter can cause terminals to get hot. Take it out and get it checked.If your mate is any sort of mechanic he should be able to bench test the starter with a set of jumper leads.

[Rusty's VS]

Sounds like the starter is stuffed. You will only here the fuel pump until the fuel light on the dash goes out. It will buzz and you should here a click as the light goes out. That means there is pressure in the fuel rail ready for engine start. As you said before the starter should crank it over even if there is no fuel. I have run my VS out of fuel once before and it a few cranks to get it started. IMO it sounds like your flat mate has toasted your starter. I'd be hitting her up for a replacement.... If you can't get any cash out of her try one from the wreakers to save ya some cash.

[fr3dd0]

Kewl, I will try and get the starter out and test it. Can I just hook it up to a car battery with jumper leads to test it? Or does it need to be hooked up to a running car (for extra current) via jumper leads instead of just a battery?

Are they easy to take out? The reason I'm asking is I cant get my mechanic to look at it again until next weekend and I need the car for work. At the moment I'm loosing heaps of money without it. Trouble is, I need to earn money to be able to fix it. Catch 22 I guess.

Thanx for all the help so far guys.

[kirkson]

hi hope this helps, I had the RAA out a while ago for a similar problem I had he turned the key to the on position, then he used an iron bar and shorted out the posetive conection on the starter to the side of the engine and she started, if you do this be very carefull,but it will test the starter without haveing to remove it, regards Kirk

[fr3dd0]

hi hope this helps, I had the RAA out a while ago for a similar problem I had he turned the key to the on position, then he used an iron bar and shorted out the posetive conection on the starter to the side of the engine and she started, if you do this be very carefull,but it will test the starter without haveing to remove it, regards Kirk

Excellent, thanx for the tip. I have got another mate who's a commodore freak who is going to try and help me tomorrow.

So if it starts like that (or at least winds the starter motor) does that mean the starter is fine and the problem is elsewhere?

[maginoodle]

Kewl, I will try and get the starter out and test it. Can I just hook it up to a car battery with jumper leads to test it? Or does it need to be hooked up to a running car (for extra current) via jumper leads instead of just a battery?

Are they easy to take out? The reason I'm asking is I cant get my mechanic to look at it again until next weekend and I need the car for work. At the moment I'm loosing heaps of money without it. Trouble is, I need to earn money to be able to fix it. Catch 22 I guess.

Thanx for all the help so far guys.

You dont need the car runnin to check the starter out just hook the earth of the jumper lead to the housing then hook the positive up to the solenoid and short the spade terminal to the positive.
You say that the starter wants to crank when you turn the key which means everything else is right.
I would be makin sure that it isnt seized by turning the harmonic balencer with a socket.If it turns then take starter out and test it.
To take the starter out you need to be able to get under the passengers side exhaust manifold from under your car. Take the positive lead off your battery.There are 2 bolts holding the starter on[14mm from memory]. You then withdraw the starter and undo the battery lead and take the solenoid wire off. Then you can test it.

[fr3dd0]

Ok. Cheers, will check that out. Can anybody show me a pic with the bolt of the harmonic balancer circled or something? I just have no idea where it is.

[sircruisealotVS]

harmonic balancer it the large black pulley at the very bottom-centre of the motor at the front...you cant miss it.

[fr3dd0]

Well, It looks like it's seized. The engine will not turn at all using a socket on the harmonic balancer.

Any other reasons that the harmonic balancer wont turn by hand?

Any suggestions on where to get a cheap replacement ecotec v6 in NSW? I have a mate that can put it in for me.

[sircruisealotVS]

sh*t...that sucks man...i wonder what the hell she did to make it seize, that person who told you she wasnt thrashing it must be full of sh*t.
as for a replacement, should be able to pick one up from a wreckers for a coupla hundred...ive seen alloytechs being sold for $2k, there's also a bloke in padstow selling a coupla low k's v8's for around $2k as well.

[Joes_meat]

Try taking the spark plugs out and turning it over. Just so you don't have to work against the compression of the engine. If that doesn't work -

Try filling all the cylinders up with oil through the spark plug hole. Leave it for a few hours and try turning it over by hand again. I had the same problem with a 202. It was freshly rebuilt though... I also never got it started again...

[maginoodle]

Take the starter out it could be jammed on the ring gear stopping the engine from turning. Then try turning the motor.Also check your water and oil just in case ity was cooked but it sounds to me that your starter is stuffed.

[MBS206]

It can be quite hard to turn the motor over by hand, pull your spark plugs out, then go again (This removes compression!)

As for the starter, they're known to have a faulty earth cable on them, and it could be kicking off when the starter goes to kick over, check all of the connections on the starter motor

[fr3dd0]

OK, thanks for the tips guyz. I will try this stuff out over the next few days and see how we go. Fingers crossed.

I'm going to try to get the court to force her to pay for the damage cuz she has to go to court for stealing it anyway. Trouble is, She doesnt work, so I'll probably end up getting $10 a week of her for the next 6 months. If thats the case then I think its going to be sitting in my backyard for the next month and a half until I can afford a new motor.:b: